Right of Way?

[Sham69]

Apologies if this isn't the correct section of the forum to post this issue...

I'd appreciate opinions/views on this right of way issue. I regularly cycle along a single track country road that has numerous passing places on either side of the road. Sometimes, a car will pull into a passing point and let me pass but almost all the time, it's me who gives way to on-coming motorised traffic by pulling in as there's barely space for a car and bicycle to pass each other. Earlier this week though, both I and the on-coming car driver chose not to give way. Both the car driver and I had opportunity to pull into a passing place to allow the other to pass but neither of us did so. Apart from a bit of fruity language from the car driver (presumably because he was forced to almost stop in the road) we passed without incident.

Got me thinking though. As a cyclist, I am always wholely in the left hand lane of the single track road - the road isn't centre-marked though. The car isn't wholely in it's lane (not by a long way) because the vehicle is too wide. Legally speaking, do I have right of way against on-coming trafic that is partly on the 'wrong' side of the road?

PS I've been cycling regularly for decades and have no itention of 'playing chicken' with on-coming motorised vehicles - right of way or not!.

 

[ushills]

I would also be interested to know this as well purely from a technical viewpoint. On country lanes I always choose or are forced to stop by the same motorists that stop for horses and walkers but drive straight at me or past me as if I didn't exist.

Taking a strong position is okay for a while until the beeping and flashing starts which is usually a good 50m before a suitable place to pull in like a farm entrance.

 

[Cush]

Common sense and good manners should dictate what to do. If it is a massive tractor I give way. If it is a Micra I slow down. If I am near a passing place I stop in it but that's just me. Every case is different. What I have noticed on single track roads is that women in Volvo's on the school run never seem to give way The same apply s to fishermen with their rods over the front of the bonnet. (I do drive a Volvo). I always slow down or stop and let horses pass.

 

[martint235]

Must resist. Must resist. Nope, can't help it. Neither of you have "right of way" as it doesn't exist in this situation.

As for who has priority, no idea. For me it all depends on the situation and how aggressive I'm feeling that particular day.

 

[PK99]

Got me thinking though. As a cyclist, I am always wholely in the left hand lane of the single track road - the road isn't centre-marked though. The car isn't wholely in it's lane (not by a long way) because the vehicle is too wide. Legally speaking, do I have right of way against on-coming trafic that is partly on the 'wrong' side of the road?

PS I've been cycling regularly for decades and have no itention of 'playing chicken' with on-coming motorised vehicles - right of way or not!.

I'll beat Gaz to this one!

No one has "right of way":

HC preamble:
1. Overview

This section should be read by all drivers, motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders. The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident.

 

[martint235]

Must resist. Must resist. Nope, can't help it. Neither of you have "right of way" as it doesn't exist in this situation.

As for who has priority, no idea. For me it all depends on the situation and how aggressive I'm feeling that particular day.

I'll beat Gaz to this one!

No one has "right of way":

Too slow.

 

[yello]

Like wot martin235 says. I suspect there's no legal or technical answer, it's something to be negotiated as and when both sensibly and with good grace. Or as cush summarised....

Common sense and good manners should dictate what to do.

 

[numbnuts]

The law of the jungle – small gives way to big

 

[snorri]

Good manners and negotiation.
Motor vehicles should not be expected to drive on the verge to avoid cyclists as this damages drainage culverts and causes erosion resulting in broken road surfaces. Likewise cyclists should not be expected to dismount between passing places or cycle off road.
Edit to say, exercise common sense with agricultural and other large vehicles.

 

[Sham69]

I take the point that 'right of way' doesn't exist in the Highway Code. I can see I should have used the term 'priority'. And as the Highway Code states that everyone should give way, then I guess no-one has priority either.

Interesting to me that the fact that the cyclist is wholely within their 'lane' yet the on-coming motorist isn't (and cannot be due to width of vehicle) counts for nothing. Imagine the legal position on a road where there is sufficient width for on-coming cars to pass each other at speed and an on-coming car ploughs into a cyclist who is wholely in the left hand lane and the car, at least parlty, in the incorrect lane. I suspect the car driver would be guilty of some form of careless/dangerous driving and the cyclist (possibly deceased!) would be wholely innocent? Different rules for different road widths?

On water, powered craft give way to sail (with a few specialist exceptions).

 

[martint235]

I take the point that 'right of way' doesn't exist in the Highway Code. I can see I should have used the term 'priority'. And as the Highway Code states that everyone should give way, then I guess no-one has priority either.

Interesting to me that the fact that the cyclist is wholely within their 'lane' yet the on-coming motorist isn't (and cannot be due to width of vehicle) counts for nothing. Imagine the legal position on a road where there is sufficient width for on-coming cars to pass each other at speed and an on-coming car ploughs into a cyclist who is wholely in the left hand lane and the car, at least parlty, in the incorrect lane. I suspect the car driver would be guilty of some form of careless/dangerous driving and the cyclist (possibly deceased!) would be wholely innocent? Different rules for different road widths?

On water, powered craft give way to sail (with a few specialist exceptions).

The cyclist isn't wholly within "their" lane though are they? There isn't a lane at all other than a bi-directional one so I think it's misleading to compare it with a scenario whereby a car traverses the central line of a two lane road to hit a cyclist. And to be honest, if I'm on a two lane road and wholly in the left hand lane and a car is coming towards me down the centre (for example to pass a parked car) in most instances I will carry on going and expect them to stop. In the same way if I need to overtake a bus on a similar road that means me crossing into the right hand lane, I'll give way to anything coming the other way.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

As a motorist I follow two basic rules:

1st - the sail before steam principle - I always give peds, cyclists, and horsey folk priority.
2nd - in meeting an equal, I'd give priority if I was the one closer to the passing place (and would expect priority if the position was reversed.)

GC

 

[Bman]

Yes, that's how I read it too. These country lanes (I feel) are intentionally left without a lane marking, essentially showing that there are not two lanes but one lane that has to be shared by traffic from both directions.

I've thought about this regularly when travelling one particular stretch of 30mph residential road. I can pass parked cars, out of the door zone, without crossing the centre line. Cars cannot. I still find myself pulling in between parked cars to give way to oncoming traffic (half) on my side of the road. Better that than win the "i'm in the right" argument as you bounce off their bonnet.

Part of the problem might be the motorist, not respecting (or understanding) the door zone and bullying their way past because they think there is enough room for both of us, but I think mostly the culprits are cockwombles using their car as a weapon to make up for some personal issue they have.

 

[Sham69]

There isn't a lane at all other than a bi-directional one so I think it's misleading to compare it with a scenario whereby a car traverses the central line of a two lane road to hit a cyclist. And to be honest, if I'm on a two lane road and wholly in the left hand lane and a car is coming towards me down the centre (for example to pass a parked car) in most instances I will carry on going and expect them to stop.

I understand your point about a single, bi-directional lane. Perhaps I shouldn't think of a narrow road as being two-way even if it can be for cyclists and other narrow vehicles. Had a look at some recent OS maps and there's no mention of 'single lane/track' roads, merely 'narrow' roads. Does 'narrow' infer single track or perhaps it's up to users to decide wether a road is single track or not?

There are roads near me - no centre line - where two on-coming cars easily pass yet not two on-coming large vehicles or a car and a very large on-coming vehicle so the road is two-way for some road users but not for others. In this instance, the larger vehicle would normaly be expected to give way because it doesn't fit on it's half of the road. So if the wider vehicle gives way to the smaller, shouldn't that apply in all such situations? Especially as I'm not aware of roads being officially classified as single track. Or maybe it only applies in cases where the council have got round to marking the road centre line?

Part of the problem might be the motorist, not respecting (or understanding) the door zone and bullying their way past because they think there is enough room for both of us.

I have to say that the vast majority of motorists I encounter are at least adequately good drivers but there is an appaling lack of understanding from a few. Clearly, some are unable or unwilling to comprehend a situation from any other road user's viewpoint. I call this the Mother-in-Law syndrome.

I've ranted on a bit, haven't I? And I thought abuse from motorists didn't affect me much!

I'd better call a halt now and get back to work - those aeroplanes don't land themselves (kidding).

 

[youngoldbloke]

re 'steam gives way to sail' - in principle that's a nice idea, but have you ever crossed the shipping lanes in the Channel under sail?