Ribble Endurance ALe Sport for commuting - Part 10 – Mahle X35 Battery Capacity Less Than 80% After Only A Year

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning,

In part 9 I mentioned an issue with the battery cable, I have put off fixing this as during the last few weeks, which have been noticeably cold, I have been running out of charge at the end of the commute into the office.

When the bike was new the app reported a 248 Wh battery capacity, it is now saying 197Wh after a year and a few days and around 113 charge cycles.

I appreciate that this is a calculated value and it still sounds a lot but when the battery voltage drops to a certain level that equates to the app saying around 40Wh of remaining capacity (Mahle X35 flashing red on the iWoc) assistance is cut to the minimum level and it just so happens that the steepest hill is about 2 miles from the office and just before recharge.

So effectively this means a 150Wh battery and this is the sort of thing you see on cheap and nasty ebikes on a TV shopping channel.

Swapping to an ebike was intended to make the commute easier, 18-20 miles each way 5 days a week, and that means assist for the first few miles whilst warming up and a lazy morning ride in once a week, the lazy morning is now off the cards.

I charge at work and up until recently have never had a range issue and I understand the need to charge in the warm, so I let the bike warm up for a couple of hours in the office, fully charge it, which finishes between 10am and 11am and then ride home at around 17:00. This also means that the battery is “comfortably” charged over the weekend.

Am I looking at a battery replacement once a year? The Mahle system has some form of programming requirement so I don’t think that I can just replace it myself and the local ebike dealer only supports bikes they sold so it’s back to Ribble for the job.

I was really hoping for two years out of the battery and I am sure that someone will be along to tell me that it is only £70ish a month to replace the battery, but added to all the other it’s only a £few a month it is getting an expensive bike to run.

I took this screen shot after getting home and it shows around 60Wh used and this is with the battery off for most of the ride. So it is easy to see how any laziness on my part during the way in "tomorrow" will get me down to the 40Wh low power only mode.

Bye

Ian

 

[raleighnut]

Batteries don't work as well in cold weather, fine charging them in the warm but once you take them outside they suffer in the cold

 

[wiggydiggy]

Batteries don't work as well in cold weather, fine charging them in the warm but once you take them outside they suffer in the cold

You can buy after market insulation to go around batteries outside but don't use them when charging!

@IanSmithCSE You're doing the right thing as well letting the bike warm up before charge, try leaving it longer before the recharge starts?

 

[fossyant]

You are lucky your employer let's you charge the battery. Mine is not keen

 

[raleighnut]

You are lucky your employer let's you charge the battery. Mine is not keen

That'll be the fire risk.

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning

It's one thing to know in theory that the ideal temperature range for the battery is 15-30 Deg. C. but then going from could just about do two days without a charge to less that one!

Sadly with the X35 the battery is within the downtube and it is not removable on a daily basis, but the bike is stored indoors so it always starts the ride well within into 10-20 Deg. C. range. I have occasionally used the app straight after a cold ride and the battery temperatre rises very quickly to room temperature as there is very little insulation around it.

Employeer probably feels guilty as he hangs an extension lead out of the window to charge his car.

Apparantly random resets are a "feature" of the app.

It seems possible that the capacity calculations are being affected by the lower discharge efficiency in the cold weather and come sunny weather they may go backup, ...... okay that does sound like wishful thinking to me as well.

Bye

Ian

 

[PaulSB]

I was really hoping for two years out of the battery and I am sure that someone will be along to tell me that it is only £70ish a month to replace the battery, but added to all the other it’s only a £few a month it is getting an expensive bike to run.

With this remark are you saying a new battery is £840 and spread over a year it's "only" £70/month. Or have I misunderstood?

If I've read you correctly this isn't far off my annual petrol cost. That's a significant monthly cost for cycling. Only you will know how it compares with other forms of commute for yourself.

I'm retired and ride +/-150 miles a week, your commute is +/-200. If it is a £70/month cost that would be enough to make me think twice about buying an e-bike when I may need one.

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning

With this remark are you saying a new battery is £840 and spread over a year it's "only" £70/month. Or have I misunderstood?....

Sort of as I am not completely sure.

You can buy a battery online for £650 from many reputable sources, but the X35 battery is not just a battery it also has the controller electronics.

I think but am not sure that the battery needs to be "licenced" using some bit of software that end users are not supposed to be able to get and using a proprietory data cable which is around £100, although I have seen them hired out at £30.

As there is no local dealer willing to do this, it has to go back to Ribble and £700-£800 seems to be the price including fitting, which is trickier than it sounds, the battery is in the downtube and cables need to be threaded through the seat tube to the motor and up to the iWoc.

I always knew that I was being demanding of the battery but I had expected 80% charge capacity after around 250-300 charge cycles, not 113, this is the typical decay rate for this type of battery.

Although the battery is only 20 Panasonic 18650 cells, replacing them is again not as simple as it sounds as you need to continue to provide power to the battery manegement system otherwise the "licence" information gets lost and you need to stuff mentioned above. Yes, even at full individual retail price there is only £200 worth of battery in the battery!

Bye

Ian

 

[biggs682]

Ouch that is an expensive battery

 

[PaulSB]

@IanSmithCSE I'm sorry to read of the issues you're encountering but thank you for sharing this. It's valuable information and something I would not have thought of when considering an ebike.

I don't know when but I may reach a point when it makes sense to invest in an ebike. An annual cost of £750 - 800 would make me, as a pensioner, think very hard about the options.

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning,

Once you add the £140 for a freehub (specialist part (£70) that needs specialist tools (£70)) and the normal running costs.....

I could in theory take a train but they take around 90 minutes door to door and require two changes so there is a high chance of missed connections and one of the evening trains will probably be full so may or may not take a full sized bike. Price wise it is around £9 per day, pretty much the same single or return.

Occasionally I do the first leg out out of choice as it leaves 7 miles of hilly roads which is a good bit of interval training and I do have a car but I am very uncomfortable driving in the dark because of headlight dazzle, so I pay duty, AA and insurance to leave it parked up.

The other big thing I found with the ebike that is not at all obvious is that many dealers won't sell the parts or service/repair an e bike that they didn't supply. I get not wanting to service an Internet Only Special Offer but never expected to hear we have the part but we won't sell it to you!

Fortunately I no longer need to spend money on servicing my pub bike.......... someone pinched it a few weeks ago.

There is an interesting thread here https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/new-pashley-bikes.301061/ talking about Pashley who have a new range including a steel framed ebike at £4k https://www.pashley.co.uk/products/roadfinder-xe. I wonder if Pashley know what they are letting themselves in for?

Bye

Ian

 

[wiggydiggy]

Good morning,

Once you add the £140 for a freehub (specialist part (£70) that needs specialist tools (£70)) and the the normal running costs.....

I could in theory take a train but they take around 90 minutes door to door and require two changes so there is a high chance of missed connections and one of the evening trains will probably be full so may or may not take a full sized bike. Price wise it is around £9 per day, pretty much the same single or return.

Occasionally I do the first leg out of choice as it leaves 7 miles of hilly roads which is a good bit of interval training and I do have a car but I am very uncomfortable driving in the dark because of headlight dazzle, so I pay duty, AA and insurance to leave it parked up.

The other big thing I found with the ebike that is not at all obvious is that many dealers won't sell the parts or service/repair an e bike that they didn't supply. I get not wanting to service an Internet Only Special Offer but never expected to hear we have the part but we won't sell it to you!

Fortunately I no longer need to spend money on servicing my pub bike.......... someone pinched it a few weeks ago.

Bye

Ian

I think some of it is to do with what you mentioned above, the licencing costs for the hardware/software might put someone off from offering that service. My LBS is not a licenced Bosch dealer for instance so I've come the next town over to have a diagnosis done on it, my own LBS will still happily deal with any none electric things though.

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning,

I think some of it is to do with what you mentioned above, the licencing costs for the hardware/software might put someone off from offering that service. My LBS is not a licenced Bosch dealer for instance so I've come the next town over to have a diagnosis done on it, my own LBS will still happily deal with any none electric things though.

I actually meant retaillers who have the parts and actively advertise on the web that they will only sell these part to people who bought bikes from them.

There is an ebike specialist in Worcester that sells Orbea e bikes so have everything needed to work on a X35 drive system who very politely (I do mean poilitely I am not being sarcastic) told me that they wouldn't supply or fit a replacement freehub as I didn't buy the bike from them. The freehun is a non standard Mahle only part.

Bye

Ian

 

[Brandane]

Once you add the £140 for a freehub (specialist part (£70) that needs specialist tools (£70)) and the normal running costs.....

I had that issue too, it seems very common. My replacement bill was "only" £90 though, done by the LBS which sold me the bike (Merida franchise).

 

[Brandane]

I had that issue too, it seems very common. My replacement bill was "only" £90 though, done by the LBS which sold me the bike (Merida franchise).

I kept the old part, photo below. I reckon the only bit that really needs replaced is the sealed bearing in the centre (but naturally they won't replace that, you have to buy the full unit). If the new one also goes u/s after 2500 miles, I might be tempted to put my theory to the test and replace that bearing. Of course, I would still need to buy the special tools to remove the complete old unit from the bike.