Replacing old five speed freewheel

[ChrisEyles]

I've got a lovely old ten speed on which I'm looking to swap out the (black and ugly) 14-26 freewheel for a new (beautiful shiny silver) 14-28 freewheel. Aesthetics aside, it's started to feel like there is a bit of resistance in the freewheel mechanism if you back-pedal the bike by hand - plus the slightly lower gearing would be a boon on the hills.

I'm decidedly in the class of enthusiastic amateur when it comes to bike maintenance, and don't have any specialised tools for the job... so I'm hoping you guys can advise me on whether/how to tackle the job myself, or just take the bike in question down to the LBS.

So, a few questions, if I may:

1) I see halfords do a cheap 14-28 five speed freewheel:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_792921_langId_-1_categoryId_165540

Is this something you can get away with skimping on, or is it better to look for a better (more expensive?) model? Not sure that they'll be stocked in my LBS though....

2) Will I be able to get the freewheel off the rear wheel with a spanner? Or do I need specialised tools?

3) It looks to me like my R.D. (1960s Suntour skitter) will cope with the extra 2t difference - but how can you tell, other than by looking at the angle at which it hangs when in the big-big combination? Also, how does one work out how many extra links to get for the new chain?

4) Is there anywhere to shove some grease in the new freewheel before putting it on the bike? Anything else I need to know?

Any advice much appreciated! Cheers!

 

[Sharky]

You'll need the proper block remover tool
http://sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html

They are only cheap, but there are a lot of variations. If you are buying a block from your lbs, they might not charge or should be cheaper than buying one.

With the chain, just try it. It will be on the big/big combination where you might have a problem and you probably would move to the little ring first.

But a new block with an old chain is very likely to "jump"' so best to fit a new chain at the same time.

Good luck
Keith

 

[ChrisEyles]

Hi Keith,

Agreed on the new chain, was going to do this soon in any case. Obviously the big/big combination isn't going to see any use but is nice to know the chain won't jam if I mis-shift (especially since my R.D. is low-normal!).

Thanks very much for the link, this is very informative. It also flags up a potentially crucial issue! I have Excelto hubs, which I'm 99% sure are French. In the article you linked, Sheldon cautions that "An ISO/British/Italian freewheel will skim the top of the threads of a French hub and will slip forward if an attempt is made to use it."

Does this mean I need to find a French freewheel? Or would a modern ISO one be OK... Oh dear... not sure I'm brave enough to try this by myself!

 

[Sharky]

Hi Keith,

Agreed on the new chain, was going to do this soon in any case. Obviously the big/big combination isn't going to see any use but is nice to know the chain won't jam if I mis-shift (especially since my R.D. is low-normal!).

Thanks very much for the link, this is very informative. It also flags up a potentially crucial issue! I have Excelto hubs, which I'm 99% sure are French. In the article you linked, Sheldon cautions that "An ISO/British/Italian freewheel will skim the top of the threads of a French hub and will slip forward if an attempt is made to use it."

Does this mean I need to find a French freewheel? Or would a modern ISO one be OK... Oh dear... not sure I'm brave enough to try this by myself!

I don't really know. When I used them, I just took whatever the bike shop had without really thinking about it. If you can see a make on the block, might be best to search for the same brand.

Or ring up a shop like sj cycles and ask them.

Good luck
Keith

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Hi Keith,

Agreed on the new chain, was going to do this soon in any case. Obviously the big/big combination isn't going to see any use but is nice to know the chain won't jam if I mis-shift (especially since my R.D. is low-normal!).

Thanks very much for the link, this is very informative. It also flags up a potentially crucial issue! I have Excelto hubs, which I'm 99% sure are French. In the article you linked, Sheldon cautions that "An ISO/British/Italian freewheel will skim the top of the threads of a French hub and will slip forward if an attempt is made to use it."

Does this mean I need to find a French freewheel? Or would a modern ISO one be OK... Oh dear... not sure I'm brave enough to try this by myself!

It depends on whether your hub needs a French threaded freewheel. If you do you could try Hilary Stone.

However your first challenge is not about finding a replacement, but to get the existing one off. In addition to the late great Sheldon's page you might want to read this too. The cost of a rare removal tool may well make it a no-brainer to get a good LBS to do it for you. Similarly, apart from tooth count and make/quality etc., you might also want to include common/economic tool (e.g. Shimano spline) availability as a key factor in new freewheel selection.

 

[mickle]

Suntour Skitter, yay!

Mechs have two parameters: 'Tooth difference', which is the lower cage plate's ability to take up the difference in free chain length when the chain is on different sized sprockets. It's calculated by subtracting the number of teeth on the smallest chainring from the number of teeth on the big chainring, and subtracting the number of teeth on the smallest sprocket from the number of teeth on the largest sprocket, and adding the two figures together.
Such as for example:
52 - 42 = 10
28 - 13 = 15
10 + 15 = 25
The other parameter is 'Max sprocket size' And this is determined by the upper part of the mech's (Suntour's patented slant parallelogram now used by all mechs everywhere) ability to follow the profile of the underside if the set of sprockets. A derailleur designed for a wide spread mountain bike set will not follow the profile of a roadbike cassette/freewheel close enough to keep the chain under its strict control. A mech designed for use on a close ratio road bike block will clash with the sprockets.

These two parameters are written on the box of a modern derailleur. I'm assuming that you've still got the box for yours?

Sometimes they stamp these on the inside face of the derailleur somewhere.

Which is a long winded way of saying that it's highly likely that your Skitter will work perfectly well on a 28t max, though you might have to give the 'B' adjust screw a couple of turns.

 

[ChrisEyles]

Thanks for all the helpful feedback!

I've just checked, and while I can't make out any branding on the current freewheel, it *does* say MADE IN FRANCE, so I'm guessing the current freewheel and hubs will indeed be French threaded.

There seem to be a few about on ebay etc, but in varying stages of wear. The hilary stone site has a rather nice looking 16-28t one (I don't get much use out of the 52/14t combo as it is), which could be an option.

The other possibility, I suppose, is to fit some new wheels with ISO threads, and get a standard freewheel, but this seems a rather expensive way to do it! Plus then there'd be the question of whether to stick with 27" or spread the chainstays to fit some 700s...

Mickle, the bike was given to me recently by my father-in-law, and didn't come with any documentation - but I will check on the inside face of the RD, good tip! I reckon it would cope just fine with a 14-28t though. A quick google suggests a 28t maximum sprocket and a 30t capacity. And yes, that skitter is certainly a distinctive looking derailleur

I'm quickly being convinced that this is more of a job for the LBS!

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

If you can see more than 4mm of daylight between the top jockey wheel and the 26T when you are in that gear, it will definitely clear a 28T.

Additionally, if on large front large back you believe you can shorten the chain by 1 link (i.e. half a pair, by pulling the chain) without any ill effect then you can be sure the rear mech has enough wrap range for the additional 2T, although this is still conservative (because the chain might not be at the slack limit on small small).

No other compatibility test is necessary for the rear mech if it can pass the two above.

 

[Poacher]

I've just checked, and while I can't make out any branding on the current freewheel, it *does* say MADE IN FRANCE, so I'm guessing the current freewheel and hubs will indeed be French threaded.

Almost certainly British/ISO threaded.
If it was for the French market, it would say something like FABRIQUE EN FRANCE; since it's in English, it's made for the British market, and sized accordingly.

 

[ChrisEyles]

Ah - that would be very useful if so!

I think I will have to go to the LBS and ask them to have a look at the threads - if ISO/British, then no problems fitting a new one, if French, then I guess just ride it 'til it won't ride no more!

 

[mickle]

I did not know that there even existed a French standard for freewheel threads. I've never encountered such a thing on a bike in the Uk. I would proceed on the assumption that its British. The likelyhood of it being French thread is virtually zero.

 

[John the Canuck]

i'm in the same boat atm
the 5speed 14-28 freewheel is stamped ''Maillard - Made in France''
does yours have no makers name..?

slight play but 20spline 'Normandy' removal tool on eBay is £16
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231190433072?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
so it can stay for the moment

ps rather than Halfords no-brand i would buy a Shimano 14-28

 

[ChrisEyles]

I can't see a maker's name stamped on the current freewheel - even the visible "MADE IN FRANCE" is quite worn and barely legible.

On closer inspection, the rear wheel has an additional threaded hub on the opposite (non-drivechain) side - I can only assume this was intended for a flip-flop gearing system at some stage. So my current plan is to get the LBS to check the thread pitch on this hub, and to see if a standard ISO freewheel will fit on. If so (fingers crossed - and very encouraging that the French thread is unlikey) I'll go with a Shimano 14-28 5 speed freewheel (and get the shop to fit it for me, from the sound of things!).

Thanks very much all for the info and advice!

 

[John the Canuck]

keep us posted

especially what the LBS discovered

 

[ChrisEyles]

will do - though may be a little while before I take the bike in (was going to do the switch when the current chain needs replacing)