Recreate my youth?

[RichardB]

This is an extremely vague query, so feel free to shoot me down, but I have got back into cycling after probably 30 years away doing other things (mostly with engines attached). I've got a nice 80s MTB that I am putting back together, and I have a very nice modern Dawes hybrid (and an electric bike, but we won't mention that). But what I would love to have is the kind of thing I had, or lusted after, in my teens and 20s. I'm not interested in a concours restoration of something special, just a useable bike with a bit of class. What we used to call a 'racer'. Rough spec would be:

• Good quality frame (531DB or equivalent) with appropriate braze-ons and horizontal top tube
• Alloy rims and hubs suitable for HP tyres, 27x1.25 or so
• Drop handlebars with proper (non-aero) brake levers
• Side or centre-pull brakes
• Downtube shifters
• 5 or 10-speed gears
• Components from the period, or suitable modern equivalents

Best of all, as Yorkshire boy, would be a Bob Jackson/JRJ/Ellis Briggs/Woodrup kind of thing (many hours spent staring through Bob Jackson's window in Harehills as a teenager), but I'd be quite happy with anything suitable and refinish it myself without decals and leave it anonymous.

Just wondering where to start, really. A complete but tatty specimen off ebay and give it a full refurb? Or find a nice frame and hunt around for suitable modern or NOS components and build it up over time? The budget would be a couple of hundred tops, which rules out just buying a whole bike in good condition of the kind I want, I think. As you can see, I am only just starting to think about this, so any advice or suggestions would be very welcome.

 

[uphillstruggler]

I reckon @biggs682 would be a good starting point.

I'm sure someone linked to something similar in the classic thread 'spotted on eBay'

 

[biggs682]

thanks @uphillstruggler

@RichardB that sounds like a good lust to me what size frame would be needed ?

loads out there and i am not sure about the whole refurb bit i like to keep some patena as we have all been through things including bikes




this is one i keep looking at and would just need levers swapping https://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/...ke-like-holdsworth-h-quinn-eroica-/1150071512

or i do have a Harry Quinn that is going through a build !!!

I do most of my cycling on the kind of bike you describe and my current favourite is a real pleasure to ride wart's and all.

if you want or need some help please ask

 

[uphillstruggler]

@biggs682 no problem, I hope he gets to scratch that itch

 

[raleighnut]

I'd be wary of 27" wheels, limited tyre choice and the rims are getting harder to find.
Someone else has already suggested Biggs or I would have done and the other suggestions of Gumtree/ e-bay are good sources but the price is rising these days, there are the occasional bargains but things that were £50-75 a few years back are fetching 'silly money' these days.

No mention of a Raleigh though on your wishlist.

 

[sidevalve]

A pretty easy ask really. I did almost exactly the same a little while ago [also from Yorkshire - maybe it's something in the water]. I bought a Dawes off E Bay [yep an old one] for £50, alloy wheels nice frame index gears etc all it needed was a clean - lube - h/bar tape and new brake blocks [ok I fitted a Brooks saddle too but that's just because I like them]. Weighs in at under 10kg - not bad even now.
Just depends on how far back you want to go. Early 80s may well be about the limit. Do you want index gears for example ? I think they're brilliant WAY better than the old friction shifters we had in my yoof [although I admit there are those who might disagree]. Are you happy with down tube shifters - I find them ok - some don't. Also you might find that it's harder to change the sprockets on the very old [pre shimano] kit so check the gearing is what you want.
PS - Woodrups shop - ahh happy memories.

 

[Illaveago]

You could possibly do what I did and that was to buy a decent bike frame for a reasonable price and then buy another cheap bike or frame which has good components that you need to make up the good one.
It is a shame that some people split up a good bike and sell off the individual parts just to make more money.
The trouble with buying a donor bike is that once you have robbed it of the parts you start to feel sorry for it and want to build it back up again.

 

[uphillstruggler]

@RichardB

I have a 1989 peougeot premier hle in very good condition, similar to one @DCLane was selling recently. I am toying with selling it to a good home - ie not to be fixied/split for parts.

the reason for selling it is that it is taking up room that I don't have and I will be donating all of the money to a local hospice that cared for a mate of mine before he passed away.

the lady who sold it to me donated the money I paid for it to the same charity so it seems fitting that my sale follows suit. its a cracking bike - maybe not quite the lightweight of the like you mentioned but its solid, reliable and comfortable (for me anyway).

let me know if your interested but there will be no bargaining on the price - pm me if you are interested.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Best of luck. It's a good and worthwhile project. I will watch with interest.

May I say that I discovered that my memories of 1970s/80s bikes were a bit rose tinted when it came to gearing. Either that or my legs have got weaker or ... (surely not) I'm carrying more weight up the hills.

This is why my own youth-recreation bike has a modern compact and 11-32 cassette on it. This led to problems with the back wheel, as a modern freehub is a bit too wide for ye olde rear forks. I just strong-arm a modern wheel into my old frame, forcing the forks a few mm apart as I insert the wheel, which is no problem at home but a bit of a pain by the roadside. The other issue is that due to the geometry of the cassette and the frame the teeny tiny 11 tooth cog is inaccessible, but that's not an issue for me. While it means that I don't have period components, it also means that I can pedal the darn thing up hills and enjoy it a bit more.

If you're dead set on period components then you won't be able to fit a compact (but you can have a triple!) and you will be limited to 28T as your biggest sprocket on your freewheel. So plan accordingly.

If I was doing it again (and I may change things like this one day) I'd stick with an old fashioned freewheel (period proper, and no need to spring the back wheel in) but I would fit a triple with a granny (makes the bike more usable by an old unfit git, and hence more fun).

If buying an old clunker with chrome steel rims, just be very careful in the rain. And plan to replace them.

You will be amazed at how fit-for-purpose and easy to maintain the old transmissions are, and how forgiving they are about fine-tuning and setup. All you need to do is get the limit screws right. You may also be amazed at what a pain centre pull brakes are to install, and how annoying it is trying to centre single pivot side-pulls.

 

[Salar]

Have you checked out www.retrobike.co.uk

I've picked up a couple of bikes and components over there.

 

[mikeymustard]

You sound like the sort of person who would like some input into the bike rather than buying a completed "ready-to-ride". You might struggle to find a 'yorkshire' brand for that kind of money but they are out there if you look hard enough (or speak very very nicely to @biggs682 who is very good at sniffing out nice examples of classics).

What others have said about rising prices is all too true I'm afraid - a touch of the hipster affect I expect: it's becoming harder to find nice examples, even in the year I've been collecting it's quite noticeable.
May I suggest you go for something 80's to start with? Complete bikes work out cheaper than refitting frames but there's more choice of frames; if you can get hold of one cheap enough (like well under a hundred spuds) it's still just about do-able, even just sourcing stuff off eBay, for another 100-150 on top. Decent quality 80's (and still period-looking 90's) components are pretty easy to come by. You should [mostly] make your money back when the bike you really want pops up, and any renovation "mistakes" won't be quite so painful.

And... echoing @Dogtrousers re gearing: how the flipping heck did we manage in the old days? A near 2:1 ratio is NOT a hill climbing gear thank you very much!

 

[rhm]

Good luck on your search, @RichardB! My advice is: look around and see what you find. Set your sights on the Bob Jackson you coveted as a youth, but don't let that blind you to something you weren't expecting when you stumble across it. Tatty classics often go remarkably cheap, especially if the seller doesn't have a clear idea of what they are selling. Are you prepared to do the repairs, maintenance, upgrades, &c, for yourself?

As for the gearing, and how did we manage it in the old days, as @mikeymustard and @Dogtrousers ask.... Of course, speaking only for myself, I am not as strong as I was in my youth, but I am a much better cyclist now. When I got my first Raleigh Record in 1978,I thought I needed higher gears so I could go faster! I had no use for lower gears. I'd just hammer up every hill without thinking about my knees. Now that I've learned to spin a higher cadence, I manage them with much less discomfort, and (I hope) less stress on my aging joints. That said, a few years ago I started riding an old Claud Butler path racer, going on nearly weekly rides with another middle aged man who's riding a track bike he built for himself over thirty years ago. Single speed, fixed gear riding was a new experience for me, so it was a big help to ride with someone who knew how it was done. And, to my great surprise, I maintain a higher average speed on those rides than when I ride a bike with wide gears. It's a lot more exercise than the way I usually ride!

 

[RichardB]

Wow, so many responses! Thank you all for taking the time to reply. One at a time ...

I reckon @biggs682 would be a good starting point.

Thank you for that.

that sounds like a good lust to me what size frame would be needed ?

loads out there and i am not sure about the whole refurb bit i like to keep some patena as we have all been through things including bikes

this is one i keep looking at and would just need levers swapping https://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/...ke-like-holdsworth-h-quinn-eroica-/1150071512

or i do have a Harry Quinn that is going through a build !!!

I do most of my cycling on the kind of bike you describe and my current favourite is a real pleasure to ride wart's and all.

if you want or need some help please ask

Thank you for the offer. I would be looking at a 22-23" (56 cm-ish)frame - as all these bikes have horizontal top tubes, it's easy to be fairly precise. None of these 'equivalents' that require a lot of guesswork. That Fletcher is the kind of thing, although it is quite pricey and probably steeper and more focused than I would be looking for. I'm probably after something a bit more general purpose. The Carlton Corsair I had in the late 70s would probably be the kind of thing I am after.

I'd be wary of 27" wheels, limited tyre choice and the rims are getting harder to find.
Someone else has already suggested Biggs or I would have done and the other suggestions of Gumtree/ e-bay are good sources but the price is rising these days, there are the occasional bargains but things that were £50-75 a few years back are fetching 'silly money' these days.

No mention of a Raleigh though on your wishlist.

I'm not committed to 27" really. I want it to be a practical ride, and 700c are close enough to fit with the ethos. I only mentioned the makes I did as indications of the locus of my fantasies, and I think you know that I already have a Raleigh and love it to bits

Just depends on how far back you want to go. Early 80s may well be about the limit. Do you want index gears for example ? I think they're brilliant WAY better than the old friction shifters we had in my yoof [although I admit there are those who might disagree]. Are you happy with down tube shifters - I find them ok - some don't. Also you might find that it's harder to change the sprockets on the very old [pre shimano] kit so check the gearing is what you want.

I had an early 80s Galaxy, and I want to go back earlier than that. Indexed gears I can take or leave, but would prefer to leave. I learned on friction shifters and I can't see anything wrong with them if you're not in a hurry. I like the way you have to 'feel' the change rather then just punch a button or lever. Downtube levers are fine - best place for them. Short cable runs and minimal outer to absorb the travel, so quick and precise. Thanks for the warning about the pre-Shimano kit, useful to know.

The trouble with buying a donor bike is that once you have robbed it of the parts you start to feel sorry for it and want to build it back up again.

You've been speaking to my wife, haven't you? I can see myself doing this, as I am a sentimental type when it comes to old machinery.

@RichardB

I have a 1989 peougeot premier hle in very good condition, similar to one @DCLane was selling recently. I am toying with selling it to a good home - ie not to be fixied/split for parts.

A good principle, and I appreciate the history there. Will send you a PM in a bit.

 

[RichardB]

Either that or my legs have got weaker or ... (surely not) I'm carrying more weight up the hills.

If I was doing it again (and I may change things like this one day) I'd stick with an old fashioned freewheel (period proper, and no need to spring the back wheel in) but I would fit a triple with a granny (makes the bike more usable by an old unfit git, and hence more fun).

If buying an old clunker with chrome steel rims, just be very careful in the rain. And plan to replace them.

My current Dawes has a granny gear of 23", and I am not seeking to replicate that. Closer ratios would be fine, as I would be a lot more choosy about where I ride it. It's hilly here and I need the wide range, but a Sunday bike could be transported to flatter terrain - or equally I could man up and hit the hills a bit harder! I doubt if I would get anything with chrome rims, as it's likely to be a clunker, and I am looking for something lighter and better than that. As soon as I was able to afford a bike with alloy rims, I never went back. They actually worked in the wet

Have you checked out www.retrobike.co.uk

I've picked up a couple of bikes and components over there.

I haven't, but I will. Thanks.

You sound like the sort of person who would like some input into the bike rather than buying a completed "ready-to-ride". You might struggle to find a 'yorkshire' brand for that kind of money but they are out there if you look hard enough (or speak very very nicely to @biggs682 who is very good at sniffing out nice examples of classics).

What others have said about rising prices is all too true I'm afraid - a touch of the hipster affect I expect: it's becoming harder to find nice examples, even in the year I've been collecting it's quite noticeable.
May I suggest you go for something 80's to start with? Complete bikes work out cheaper than refitting frames but there's more choice of frames; if you can get hold of one cheap enough (like well under a hundred spuds) it's still just about do-able, even just sourcing stuff off eBay, for another 100-150 on top. Decent quality 80's (and still period-looking 90's) components are pretty easy to come by. You should [mostly] make your money back when the bike you really want pops up, and any renovation "mistakes" won't be quite so painful.

And... echoing @Dogtrousers re gearing: how the flipping heck did we manage in the old days? A near 2:1 ratio is NOT a hill climbing gear thank you very much!

Yes, I'm not interested in buying something ready-to-go, unless it was something very special. I'm fully expecting to get my hands dirty - either a frame to refurbish and refit with bought components, or a tatty old thing that will need restoration. Anything with patina will obviously be treated properly, but if it's nothing special and too rusty or chipped, I am prepared to strip back and refinish. Rebuilding and reconfiguring to my own needs and tastes is part of the project - I'm not just looking to 'buy a bike'.

As to gears - the Corsair had (from memory) 52/42 and 14-34 on 27", 33-100 gear inches, and that was pretty useable. For one winter I converted it to fixed and rode the Yorkshire Wolds on 63" - but my legs were 30 years younger then!

Single speed, fixed gear riding was a new experience for me, so it was a big help to ride with someone who knew how it was done. And, to my great surprise, I maintain a higher average speed on those rides than when I ride a bike with wide gears. It's a lot more exercise than the way I usually ride!

I liked riding fixed, even in city traffic, but when I went back to 10 speeds for the summer I don't think I ever went back to it. But you are right - sometimes higher ratios force you to work harder. Now I am getting some fitness back, I wouldn't mind trying something a bit narrower than the magnificent spread of the Dawes - 23-117 inches as standard.

Very interesting and helpful responses, for which I am grateful. Don't 'watch this space', as I am still at a very early stage with this idea, but I have plenty to think about. Thanks all.

 

[RichardB]

loads out there and i am not sure about the whole refurb bit i like to keep some patena as we have all been through things including bikes

I've just re-read this and thought it deserved a fuller reply. When I say 'refurb' I mean a) complete dismantle and clean, b) dismantle and lube all bearings, renewing as necessary, c) new cables and brake blocks, d) new handlebar tape, saddle, tyres etc if required, e) paintwork cleaned and waxed, rust treated, exposed metal polished properly. The whole 'history' thing is important, and I wouldn't include a repaint unless it was so far gone that there was no alternative - assuming a run-of-the-mill bike with no special historic significance. I suppose I would sum up by saying a bike in 100% perfect working order, and looking as good as I can make it for its age.

The Carlton I mentioned above was functionally a great bike and I loved it. It took me to work every day and on a couple of tours, and I wish I knew what had happened to it. But I hated the colour scheme - metallic brown and gold. In the end I stripped it and gave the frame to a local builder who stove enamelled it in dark blue. No decals - I even lost the 531 stickers. I probably shouldn't have done it, but that's when I felt the bike was truly mine. We had a lot of good times together. I felt it was a bit of a stealth bike.