Raleigh MTB Bottom Bracket

[DRM]

Being part way through resuscitating an elderly Raleigh MTB, from around 1990, into a Hybrid/Hack type bike, I will have to remove the cranks and strip, clean & grease the cup & cone bottom bracket, which has loads of play in it, my question is, if the BB has had it, will this be an English threaded BB ? would I be better off replacing it with a cartridge type, square taper? I haven't got the cranks off yet, so I have no idea what length the axle is.
I'm not sure what model of Raleigh it is, as there is no stickers on the frame for the model, just on the down tube, with Raleigh-Special Edition, but the closest I can see on line is the Nitro, which seems to be the same geometry with the rear brake cable internally routed through the top tube, however all the pictures of Nitro's are finished in a dark metallic red, this thing is finished in a dark metallic green, if anyone knows what it is I'd be glad to know, all I know is it's nothing fancy, it's quite heavy!

 

[raleighnut]

Being part way through resuscitating an elderly Raleigh MTB, from around 1990, into a Hybrid/Hack type bike, I will have to remove the cranks and strip, clean & grease the cup & cone bottom bracket, which has loads of play in it, my question is, if the BB has had it, will this be an English threaded BB ? would I be better off replacing it with a cartridge type, square taper? I haven't got the cranks off yet, so I have no idea what length the axle is.
I'm not sure what model of Raleigh it is, as there is no stickers on the frame for the model, just on the down tube, with Raleigh-Special Edition, but the closest I can see on line is the Nitro, which seems to be the same geometry with the rear brake cable internally routed through the top tube, however all the pictures of Nitro's are finished in a dark metallic red, this thing is finished in a dark metallic green, if anyone knows what it is I'd be glad to know, all I know is it's nothing fancy, it's quite heavy!

If you're lucky the original shaft will be in good condition so a couple of caged bearing sets will be all you need ( the only important part is a small area the bearings run on, about a millimetre wide) if not it is a standard (BSA) thread.
Failing that any threaded BB will fit even up to HT11 so 'the worlds your lobster' , I've got a Raleigh 'Outlander' from the 90s with an HT11 'Deore' crank fitted but only because it was cheaper than any square taper aluminium 'triple' crankset I could find. The original Raleigh crankset is a bit of a 'boat anchor' so make sure you don't drop it on your toes when removing it. Better wheels are easily fitted and mine is a 'tough as old boots' heavy tourer these days but with everything bar the frame new except for the stem as some Raleigh MTBs of this era had a unique Raleigh size of fork/headset/stem sizing.

 

[DRM]

If you're lucky the original shaft will be in good condition so a couple of caged bearing sets will be all you need ( the only important part is a small area the bearings run on, about a millimetre wide) if not it is a standard (BSA) thread.
Failing that any threaded BB will fit even up to HT11 so 'the worlds your lobster' , I've got a Raleigh 'Outlander' from the 90s with an HT11 'Deore' crank fitted but only because it was cheaper than any square taper aluminium 'triple' crankset I could find. The original Raleigh crankset is a bit of a 'boat anchor' so make sure you don't drop it on your toes when removing it. Better wheels are easily fitted and mine is a 'tough as old boots' heavy tourer these days but with everything bar the frame new except for the stem as some Raleigh MTBs of this era had a unique Raleigh size of fork/headset/stem sizing.

Thats what I'm hoping, with a bit of luck I can remove the BB, give it a good clean up, grease it and worse case just replace the ball bearings, however knowing my luck, it'll be absolutely shot, and will need replacing, as I've no idea how long it's been so loose, and how much use it's had in that state, at least I now know the thread size, thanks for the reply.

 

[Cycleops]

Those old BBS can go on for intergalactic mileages even with abuse so you should be okay with refurb.

 

[I like Skol]

Those old BBS can go on for intergalactic mileages even with abuse so you should be okay with refurb.

Depends, the cups can get quite seriously gouged so even with new balls they will never run right. Tight enough to remove play results in bad binding, but loosen them off enough to stop the binding and the excessive play returns.
a Shimano UN26 is cheap as chips and likely as good as the item it is replacing. Just measure bb shell width and axle length.

 

[DRM]

Depends, the cups can get quite seriously gouged so even with new balls they will never run right. Tight enough to remove play results in bad binding, but loosen them off enough to stop the binding and the excessive play returns.
a Shimano UN26 is cheap as chips and likely as good as the item it is replacing. Just measure bb shell width and axle length.

Thats the thing, until I’ve stripped & inspected it , I’ve no idea how good, or bad it is, the correct tools to get it off without damaging the lock ring and cups come to £36, as it seems only Park Tool make them, so do I loosen the lock ring with a cold chisel and hammer, Take a big spanner to the cups, & buy a cartridge type bb and the correct tool to refit it, I think this may be the way to go and just write the original off.
However, I have fitted the new cantilever brakes, fitted new cables for them, fitted the new tyres, tubes and rim tape, fitted the derailleur back on after a thorough clean and some new jockey wheels, replaced the chain & rear gear cables, leaving the front derailleur to have new cables when I next get a bit of time.
once the bb is sorted out I can fine tune the indexing, but it is changing up & down ok.
At least now it looks like progress has been made.

 

[raleighnut]

Thats the thing, until I’ve stripped & inspected it , I’ve no idea how good, or bad it is, the correct tools to get it off without damaging the lock ring and cups come to £36, as it seems only Park Tool make them, so do I loosen the lock ring with a cold chisel and hammer, Take a big spanner to the cups, & buy a cartridge type bb and the correct tool to refit it, I think this may be the way to go and just write the original off.
However, I have fitted the new cantilever brakes, fitted new cables for them, fitted the new tyres, tubes and rim tape, fitted the derailleur back on after a thorough clean and some new jockey wheels, replaced the chain & rear gear cables, leaving the front derailleur to have new cables when I next get a bit of time.
once the bb is sorted out I can fine tune the indexing, but it is changing up & down ok.
At least now it looks like progress has been made.

There's no need to use a chisel on the lockring, use a 'drift' and one good whack with a tapping stick to free off the lockring (normal thread) the adjustable cup should then unscrew. then you can remove the shaft and check it for wear, if it is OK I never bother removing the fixed cup just wipe it clean with a bit of cloth on a stick and regrease/reassemble. If the shaft is kippered then unless like me you have access to a bunch of new/reusable uns you may need to attack the fixed and often corroded in side (LH thread) where the easiest way to remove it is a bolt and a washer or 2 .

Method,
Insert a large bolt from the inside of the BB with maybe a washer on it, fit another washer to the threads of the bolt then the nut and tighten it up then continue turning the nut tighter and the fixed cup will unscrew as if by magic, the wonders of a Left Hand thread.

 

[Gunk]

Or just put the BB in the vice and use the frame as leverage. I’ve never had one beat me.

personally I’d just clean it up and rebuild it with loose ball bearings, you won’t believe how smooth it’ll be.

 

[raleighnut]

Or just put the BB in the vice and use the frame as leverage. I’ve never had one beat me.

personally I’d just clean it up and rebuild it with loose ball bearings, you won’t believe how smooth it’ll be.

The caged bearings (with plenty of grease) can be as smooth though.

 

[DRM]

i’ll get the cranks off and strip the BB, probably next week now, that’s a good tip re the bolt, nut and washer, plenty of penetrating oil won’t go amiss either, fingers crossed it just needs greasing and set the preload correctly, however if it needs a new BB, then so be it, at least it‘s not getting scrapped, which is the main thing.

 

[DRM]

Does any one know how the frame number stamped on the non drive side identifies the year, I did spot it yesterday, iirc it starts 166, there's also a little gold coloured sticker on the seat tube that has a number on it, and says something along the lines of made to BS whatever by Raleigh cycles Nottingham, what is that number, it's like another serial number.
I've read else where that the hubs can give a clue, but I think someone has put on some Italian alloy rimmed wheels, I'm hazarding a guess it dates from 1991.
Also I had a little pedal up & down the street yesterday, I was surprised that the canti brakes weren't as bad as I was expecting, and thanks to the big blue book of bike repair and Calvin Jones explanation on Park Tools You Tube channel are set up bob on!

 

[raleighnut]

Does any one know how the frame number stamped on the non drive side identifies the year, I did spot it yesterday, iirc it starts 166, there's also a little gold coloured sticker on the seat tube that has a number on it, and says something along the lines of made to BS whatever by Raleigh cycles Nottingham, what is that number, it's like another serial number.
I've read else where that the hubs can give a clue, but I think someone has put on some Italian alloy rimmed wheels, I'm hazarding a guess it dates from 1991.
Also I had a little pedal up & down the street yesterday, I was surprised that the canti brakes weren't as bad as I was expecting, and thanks to the big blue book of bike repair and Calvin Jones explanation on Park Tools You Tube channel are set up bob on!

Is the number something along the lines of 18-23

 

[DRM]

Is the number something along the lines of 18-23

no it's like a serial number I think it started 50******** was quite a long one, perhaps it relates to being registered with British Standards, unfortunately I didn't really take much notice as I was putting everything away between the periods of monsoon yesterday

 

[Gunk]

Insert a large bolt from the inside of the BB with maybe a washer on it, fit another washer to the threads of the bolt then the nut and tighten it up then continue turning the nut tighter and the fixed cup will unscrew as if by magic, the wonders of a Left Hand thread.

Genius idea!

Inspired by this, this morning I’ve made a tool to remove the Bb fixed cup which on older bikes are always a sod to remove.

It’s a cheap crank removal tool I already had (rubbish as a crank removal tool) I’ve reversed the black piece. Added some washers and it takes a 16mm socket so will take a breaker bar for maximum leverage.

I’ve got an old BB to remove on my Elvish kids bike soon so I’ll report back in how effective it is.

 

[Reynard]

no it's like a serial number I think it started 50******** was quite a long one, perhaps it relates to being registered with British Standards, unfortunately I didn't really take much notice as I was putting everything away between the periods of monsoon yesterday

Ah, you mean a sticker like this? This one is on the MTB I... acquired... yesterday.

Reason I'm asking, is that I'm also kind of curious... Is the number on the sticker the same, btw?