Question about changing technique

[JustT]

Hi guys,

So a bit of a question, you've probably heard it all before, but here goes. Well after reading lots of topics and threads I desided with Helvellyn looming and all to try out this spinning malarky. Usually I 'grind' (think thats the correct term) up hills in as high a gear as possible, only switching down when I have too.

Now as I gather the idea of spinning is to use as lower gear as is necessary to get up the hill at a reasonable speed without expending as much energy, ie having to get out the saddle as I often do. And keeping a cadence of between 80-100 id ideal.

So after a nice 40 mile flat ride in Cheshire on thursday to give my legs a brake from the hills, I tried this technique out on our local hills on Friday. Now time wise there was not much diference. But 'oh my god' my legs. Appart from 2 sections where I droped to a cadence of 64 I managed to keep it up to 84ish on the hills and 90-101 on the flat. Difference being I had to swap into the small chainring for the hills. And my friend had to wait for me, and thats not happened for a long time. I expected some complaining from my legs, different muscle group usage and all that, but not quite so much discomfort.

So question, am I doing it wrong? Will it make me better on the hills over longer distances? Should I keep at it starting with shorter hill rep work? Or should I just stick to what works for me? And do I have the cadence ratio right?

Cheers

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Hi guys,

So a bit of a question, you've probably heard it all before, but here goes. Well after reading lots of topics and threads I desided with Helvellyn looming and all to try out this spinning malarky. Usually I 'grind' (think thats the correct term) up hills in as high a gear as possible, only switching down when I have too.

Now as I gather the idea of spinning is to use as lower gear as is necessary to get up the hill at a reasonable speed without expending as much energy, ie having to get out the saddle as I often do. And keeping a cadence of between 80-100 id ideal.

So after a nice 40 mile flat ride in Cheshire on thursday to give my legs a brake from the hills, I tried this technique out on our local hills on Friday. Now time wise there was not much diference. But 'oh my god' my legs. Appart from 2 sections where I droped to a cadence of 64 I managed to keep it up to 84ish on the hills and 90-101 on the flat. Difference being I had to swap into the small chainring for the hills. And my friend had to wait for me, and thats not happened for a long time. I expected some complaining from my legs, different muscle group usage and all that, but not quite so much discomfort.

So question, am I doing it wrong? Will it make me better on the hills over longer distances? Should I keep at it starting with shorter hill rep work? Or should I just stick to what works for me? And do I have the cadence ratio right?

Cheers

My understanding is that the technique works if you have fast twitch muscle fibre (as a sprinter would). Full out grinding suits massively powerful legs. Find what words for you is my recommendation

 

[gaz]

The ideal cadence is 80 -100 rpm.
The reason we have gears is to keep in that ideal rpm range over different speeds.
If you don't 'spin' up the hills then you are just wasting your energy abd giving yourself more pain than you need to.

You shouldn't be using different muscles, it's the same action you are doing, only faster

 

[gaz]

My understanding is that the technique works if you have fast twitch muscle fibre (as a sprinter would). Full out grinding suits massively powerful legs. Find what words for you is my recommendation

I think using what works is a bad idea. The two techniques burn different energy sources and in different ways.

If you choose to try and change, it will be hard work but 'spinning' up a hill is the most effective way to get up.

 

[Holy Warrior]

On moderate hills I tend to keep in quite a high gear if I can but stand up and keep the pedals moving pretty quickly. I could change up and go quicker but that fatigues my legs. I only do this if I know it's either close to home or a section of the ride where i can have a lot of recovery time, in a descent or a lot of flat.


Staying sitting down is really hard for me, I usually just keep getting slower and slower, lowering the gear. I guess in my limited experience I would suggest that you a) try both techniques and see what you find most comfortable, there is no right or wrong way to climb; and b) know your route. Make sure you know that if you go up a climb you know whether there us going to be a recovery period or more climbing.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Edit. Check your source before you use it.

If I had quoted a source that would be a valid point. I said "my understanding" - I have check with myself and up to the point I was corrected I was correctly quoting.

 

[gaz]

If I had quoted a source that would be a valid point. I said "my understanding" - I have check with myself and up to the point I was corrected I was correctly quoting.

Sorry that was about what I had said. I realised my source was not realiable and thus deleted it, replaced it with that and then re-wrote what my post.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Sorry that was about what I had said. I realised my source was not realiable and thus deleted it, replaced it with that and then re-wrote what my post.

LOL 'tis OK. Hence my attempt of humour in my reply

 

[JustT]

Thanks for the replies, would like to say that its cleared it up for me but still jsut as flumoxed.

When I first started cycling my hubby told me to 'spin' up the hills, and that his how I started, and spent months in the 'granny gear ' with no considerable improvement. It was only when I started going out with a cycling friend I started to improve. I had to up the gears and go out of the saddle to keep up with her on the hills. And when I joined my local tri club i noticed a lot of the better riders took the hills out of the saddle after an initial seated efort. And we started doing regular hill rep sessions each week, using different techniques to get up the hill. The spin one always recked my legs, it really hurt, like bad cramp. A comment was made that spinning would hurt "us endurance cyclists", so I asumed, like Angelfish commented it was geared towards sprinters, and we were jsut practicing it.

Now I have been trying to improve my cadence, normaly I am in as high a gear as possible, flat and hill, at aroud 55-75 cadence. So i have been finding keeping it at 80-100 exhausting, why? if its supposed to expend less energy?
Although I must admit, on the flat I like the rythm and feel of a higher cadence, makes me feel like I am actualy moving haha.

So I am assuming the problem is just my legs???? And over time they will adapt??? But in the meantime whilst I struggle away at this high cadence, spinning thingy my speed is suffering, and my distance and my endurance, and I feel like I am back to the begining

 

[Hacienda71]

I spin in conjunction with grinding. I view it as an alternative over grinding on a longer climb. It gives you a rest for a short time if that makes sense. I would definitely be slower if it was all spinning and no grinding though.

 

[lulubel]

Spinning up hills doesn't use all the same muscles as getting out of the saddle. That's why so many people recommend developing both techniques for long hills, so you can keep swapping between them and giving yourself a partial rest.

If you're finding spinning very hard, it might be because you're trying to spin in too high a gear for where your legs are at the moment, so I'd recommend changing down another gear or two and maintaining the same cadence. What works for me is spinning in a gear where I'm breathing hard, but I don't really notice my legs working that much. As your "spinning muscles" start to get the idea, you should be able to start using a higher gear without any more effort. Obviously, this will mean a temporary drop in speed, so if you're worried about people having to wait for you, maybe just practice it when you're on your own until your legs get more used to it.

I'm the opposite to you. I spin most of the time, and I'm just starting to introduce getting out of the saddle on some hills. I find spinning much easier. I can go faster out of the saddle, but only for short bursts.

What's probably happening with the riders at the tri club is they know how much effort they have to put into hills, so they stay seated for a while to conserve energy then, once they know they've got enough to get over the top, they stand and power up the rest of the way.

 

[gaz]

Griding will burn more glycogen where as spinning will burn more fat. They just burn different energy types.

 

[steve52]

mmmm why not spin in a huge gear im off to do that right now up the steepest hill in can find

 

[zigzag]

both techniques are good in their own way. and spinning is not better just because it burns more fat in comparison to grinding which burns more glycogen. if i have enough glycogen energy in reserves why not use it and grind? if i'm following a rider (of similar speed) and he is breaking away the only hope for me to close the gap is to drop a gear or two and get out of saddle.

 

[gaz]

There is a difference between grinding up the hill and dropping a few gears to get out of the saddle and accelerate.
And out of the saddle action does not mean you will be grinding. You can be out of the saddle powering away at 90rpm.