Plumbing - alternative to soldering

[lazybloke]

I need to alter my existing CH flow & return pipes under a floor, but the space is so restricted i'm not confident I can get the right angle with a torch for soldering.
Sames goes for using spanners, so compression joints might not be any better.

So options..... is push fit any good for CH?
Bear in mind my boiler is non-condensing, so I believe the flow will be circa 80C. A quick google suggests push-fit can only cope with 3 bar at that temperature, which seems pretty low. i'd be nervous of something giving way next winter.

Just looking for thoughts, warnings, reassurances or recomendations, please. Ta!

 

[presta]

Is there any way you can assemble a section first, then wangle it into place and connect the ends of it where there's more room? I don't like push fit, I wouldn't trust them.

 

[I like Skol]

None reusable copper pushfit on copper pipe. Ok to 114°C at 10 Bar....

https://www.toolstation.com/pegler-yorkshire-tectite-sprint-push-fit-stop-end/p61332

 

[fossyant]

I know you don't like it but John Guest push fit is brilliant. All you need to do is cut the copper pipes square, and take off any burs.

Rotated the bath and reconnected using push fit. No leaks in years. Even a plumber fixed a pin hole leak in a pipe in the ceiling wiyh push fit. Cut section out, refitted with push fit.

 

[newts]

If your heating system is a sealed system it shouldn't get above 2.5 bar in normal use. The prv(pressure relief valve) should be set to release around 3.0bar. I wouldn't want hot water circulating my house at 80c above 3.0bar, very dangerous💣
Pushfit couplers have been around for over 30 years, if installed correctly & pipes supported adquatley all will be good.

 

[slowmotion]

Push-fit fittings are quite bulky compared to solder ring ones. If you get a heat resistant plumbing mat you can solder very close to combustible surfaces when space is tight.

Lookee here......
Amazon product ASIN B0001P0FJAView: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Monument-2351a-Soldering-Brazing-X10in/dp/B0001P0FJA/ref=sr_1_19?adgrpid=53035802557&hvadid=259035387531&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9061007&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=658362139946696989&hvtargid=kwd-315364652399&hydadcr=29386_1700923&keywords=plumbing+mat&qid=1685023458&sr=8-19

 

[lazybloke]

Is there any way you can assemble a section first, then wangle it into place and connect the ends of it where there's more room? I don't like push fit, I wouldn't trust them.

Possiby. I won't know until I lift some floorboards in a cupboard and take photos through holes in a sleeper wall.
Thats the kind of access I have, unless I want to cause marital disharmony by lifting a new(ish) hall floor.

If your heating system is a sealed system it shouldn't get above 2.5 bar in normal use. The prv(pressure relief valve) should be set to release around 3.0bar. I wouldn't was hot water circulating my house at 80c above 3.0bar, very dangerous💣
Pushfit couplers have been around for over 30 years, if installed correctly & pipes supported adquatley all will be good.

Am not running at 3 bar, I just thought 3 bar was far too low a specification for joints in my sealed CH system. Not enough safety margin.
The PRV is the primary safety mechanism in the system; as far as I'm concerned that means absolutely everything else has to be rated at a somewhat higher pressure.
@I like Skol's recommendation looks the part - many thanks.

As for 80c flow temp, I've never measured it, I just thought that was bog standard for non-condensing boilers.

Cheers for suggestions, all. Soldering remains my preference, then compression. If neither of those look possible I'll either leave it untouched or consider push-fit.

 

[CXRAndy]

Solder it or use compression fittings with a tool. Push fit will fail, I know they last about 10 years

 

[Threevok]

I've had push fit in my entire house since I moved in, back in 1998. No problems at all

 

[Once a Wheeler]

I have had good results using Araldite type adhesives in this situation. However, at your own risk as I do not think there is any established technique involving adhesives. Check that the adhesive will take the temperature ranges involved. I found that joints and fittings with about 1–2mm gap between the outer and inner diameters of the tubes being joined worked well. These have lasted on hot and cold piping for around 15 years so far. It could be worth doing a test piece which you stress to destruction before doing the real thing. Good luck.

 

[midlife]

When I had my extension redone last year it was all push fit and then boxed in. Builder and plumber didn’t see a problem…..

 

[newts]

I have had good results using Araldite type adhesives in this situation. However, at your own risk as I do not think there is any established technique involving adhesives. Check that the adhesive will take the temperature ranges involved. I found that joints and fittings with about 1–2mm gap between the outer and inner diameters of the tubes being joined worked well. These have lasted on hot and cold piping for around 15 years so far. It could be worth doing a test piece which you stress to destruction before doing the real thing. Good luck.

I'm not aware of any pipe/fittings that you can glue/stick that are suitable for potable water or heating systems in the uk? 🤠 There was one used circa 40years when copper was in short supply. That was very quickly withdrawn from the market due to many failures at mains pressure water. Hep2O & Speedfit are fine on domestic heating circuits (>1.25m from the boiler). Pipes must be clipped/well supported & the fittings not under stress from the pipework.

 

[Mr Celine]

My house was built in 1987 with all push-fit and plastic pipes, apart from the initial run from the boiler. The only one that ever gave way was one on the incoming cold water mains pipe. (The water pressure here is variable, but always absurdly high).

I've added to the central heating since, also push fit though the ones I use now (hep2o) are demountable. Never had a problem on hot water or CH circuits.

 

[OldShep]

I built and plumbed my house in the 90's. Plumbers I knew said, don’t use plastic or push fit, mice will eat it , it can’t cope with hot water etc.
I plumbed the whole house myself in plastic and nearly 30 years on I can tell you they speak a load of pish.

 

[figbat]

The only plumbing problem we’ve had in our house since a total renovation was a push-fit connector coming loose on the heating system (presumably not push-fitted well enough).

For access, can you get at it from beneath through the ceiling below? That’s what I had to do to sort this one out since the floor above it was the tiled bathroom floor. I punched a hole in the plasterboard, fixed the leak then made a plasterboard repair, filled and painted, good as new.