John the Monkey
Frivolous Cyclist
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NYVelocity - David Walsh Interview
- Thread starter John the Monkey
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Chuffy
Veteran
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- On the banks of the Exe
Interesting interview. When I heard that Walsh and Ballester had written another book, and I found out the subject matter, I confess that my first thought was ‘oh no, give it a rest guys…’. I think Walsh is right about LA and he has some very interesting things to say about how the business works. However, I’d like to see him tackling doping in cycling in the round because that would reveal plenty and perhaps work towards Team LA being brought to book. Whether Walsh’s focus on Team LA is justified isn’t the point because all it does is allow his enemies and those who prefer the rosy-tinted view to dismiss him as bitter and obsessed. As it is there’s more than a hint of crazy Captain Ahab chasing Moby Dick and frankly, Armstrong is too big a Dick to be brought down this way. I think Walsh (and perhaps Kimmage too) would do better if they changed tack or there’s a danger that they will undermine their own cases. I’d love to see him thoroughly vindicated, but I doubt that will come through his own efforts.
Chuffy
Veteran
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- On the banks of the Exe
In what way?yello said:
Out of interest, I found and watched a YouTube clip of the Sestriere finish in the 99 Tour. It's the first time I've seen it and it's an incredible watch. It reminded me of Riccardo Ricco on the Col D'Aspin in last years tour.
What I really find difficult to believe is why so many people say nothing, or even change their stories. And if LA does pursue political interests then he must surely know (as Walsh hopes) that his past will be ransacked.
What I really find difficult to believe is why so many people say nothing, or even change their stories. And if LA does pursue political interests then he must surely know (as Walsh hopes) that his past will be ransacked.
Chuffy
Veteran
- Location
- On the banks of the Exe
I'm sure they could both tell tales explaining their Extraordinary Performance Output.....yello said:
Hont
Guru
- Location
- Bromsgrove
Chuffy said:
Yeah he doesn't do himself any favours does he? Why didn't he go after Miguel Indurain? Why is he appearing to defend Rugby drug testing procedures when he places no credibility in cycling drug testing procedures despite it being the most rigorous testing of any sport?
I am in no doubt that Armstrong was performance enhancing in some way (can he sue me for saying that?), alongside Sestrieres take a look at Ventoux in 2000. He sprints up to Pantani and we know what Pantani was on. But it is definitely personal with Walsh.
People find out about the sport, learn its intricacies and then go and watch the Tour and talk to all their mates about it. A great sport, fantastic holiday. They talk about it and talk about how the older riders doped. They spend endless hours debating the races, the stages the tactics. Then one by one their heroes test positive. Then they drop out of the sport. The bike stays in the garage and they do something else. A few years ago, a mate rang up to tell me he had gone to the Giro and seen Basso. Wasn't Basso absolutely superb. Even as he was speaking and telling me of his holiday I knew it was the end for him. I had seen Basso win that Giro. He might be clean, but the odds for it were not good. Fast forward some years. My friend wants nothing to do with watching the pro male scene. "It's ridiculous". With the drug culture endemic, there is no point to it. Go to the circus and be entertained by the amazing Grimaldi brothers.
I met a guy out of the blue last year. The guy had no real interest in sport, did community work with children in his spare time. Really nice guy. Not rich, no great aspirations, just your everyday jo, but he knew about Lance Armstrong. "That guy is a super fella. Has come back from cancer and won 7 tours. Absolutely amazing. Must be the finest athlete on the planet. now doing charity work. Has to be one of the most wonderful guys on the planet". The only sports book he had ever bought was about Lance Armstrong. I felt it was not the time to tell him my concerns.
If it is ok to con everybody and just the bottom line counts, then great, Walsh is just another walk on character to entertain the masses before and after the main circus performance. If you actually want the sport to be a fine a noble competition, then you need Walsh to win. He isn't going to win in a straight fight because the English libel laws are just written for the likes of Bob Maxwell and Lance to make sure it just ain't worth anybodies time to back him by giving him editorial room in their journals. If Walsh has to become like Ahab, if he is going to win, then good on you Walsh, I'll listen to his leg on the deck all night. If that is what it takes to clean up the men's side of the sport then great, I would put up with 15 crazy journailists all with one leg and maniacal stares if the sport could be cleaned up. For me, I ride my bike, I watch the odd men's race but I do have a little more faith in the women's scene. Maybe they are not all clean, but I think there is certainly little incentive for them to dope and as Newton said, to every force there is an equal and oposite reaction !
I met a guy out of the blue last year. The guy had no real interest in sport, did community work with children in his spare time. Really nice guy. Not rich, no great aspirations, just your everyday jo, but he knew about Lance Armstrong. "That guy is a super fella. Has come back from cancer and won 7 tours. Absolutely amazing. Must be the finest athlete on the planet. now doing charity work. Has to be one of the most wonderful guys on the planet". The only sports book he had ever bought was about Lance Armstrong. I felt it was not the time to tell him my concerns.
If it is ok to con everybody and just the bottom line counts, then great, Walsh is just another walk on character to entertain the masses before and after the main circus performance. If you actually want the sport to be a fine a noble competition, then you need Walsh to win. He isn't going to win in a straight fight because the English libel laws are just written for the likes of Bob Maxwell and Lance to make sure it just ain't worth anybodies time to back him by giving him editorial room in their journals. If Walsh has to become like Ahab, if he is going to win, then good on you Walsh, I'll listen to his leg on the deck all night. If that is what it takes to clean up the men's side of the sport then great, I would put up with 15 crazy journailists all with one leg and maniacal stares if the sport could be cleaned up. For me, I ride my bike, I watch the odd men's race but I do have a little more faith in the women's scene. Maybe they are not all clean, but I think there is certainly little incentive for them to dope and as Newton said, to every force there is an equal and oposite reaction !
Chuffy
Veteran
- Location
- On the banks of the Exe
From what he was saying (and it makes sense) it was Festina in 98 that really blew the whole thing wide open. I imagine that talking about Indurain being on the sauce during his reign would end up with you either being ignored by everyone (and bear in mind what he says in the article about the way that journalists who wanted to investigate and write about doping had their noses bitten off) or being sued into oblivion.Hont said:
Dave5N
Über Member
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- Outside The Little Nibble
All Walsh has done is slag our sport off without making anything better. Don't get me started on the hippocrite Kimmage.
Maybe Walsh needs to look again at Puerto, and in particular the rise of the spanish in Endurance sports.
Especially rich ones.
Maybe Walsh needs to look again at Puerto, and in particular the rise of the spanish in Endurance sports.
Especially rich ones.
Hont
Guru
- Location
- Bromsgrove
I don't think you can make excuses for Walsh being obsessed with Lance. If not Indurain then why not Ulrich? This is his main problem: there are cheats to be exposed, but Walsh comes across as a crank just trying to "get Lance" so loses credibility. Much of the anti-Armstrong sentiment in the new book isn't even about drugs.
I also think that he, and Kimmage, could take more cycling fans with them if they acknowledged that things are getting better (which they undoubtedly are - you only have to look at the role the teams play now compared to the 90s). They both seem to be stuck in a "all cyclists use drugs" mentality. As Dave5N says, they slag the sport off, which alienates all of us who want a clean sport but still love it.
I also think that he, and Kimmage, could take more cycling fans with them if they acknowledged that things are getting better (which they undoubtedly are - you only have to look at the role the teams play now compared to the 90s). They both seem to be stuck in a "all cyclists use drugs" mentality. As Dave5N says, they slag the sport off, which alienates all of us who want a clean sport but still love it.
OP
OP
John the Monkey
Frivolous Cyclist
- Location
- Crewe
On a point of order, Kimmage did acknowledge things were getting better - he wrote an article after the 2008 tour saying how impressed he was with the Garmin/Slipstream setup - would have been in Pro Cycling or Cycle Sport.
That was pre the return of the Lancer and his "Landis is just like Millar" statements though.
Hont, did you read the stuff Kohl said? Any of the Der Speigl investigation into the T-Mobile team? I love the sport too, but it's seriously f*cked up in some places, that needs bringing to light. Particularly given the risks to riders of some of the practices exposed.
That was pre the return of the Lancer and his "Landis is just like Millar" statements though.
Hont, did you read the stuff Kohl said? Any of the Der Speigl investigation into the T-Mobile team? I love the sport too, but it's seriously f*cked up in some places, that needs bringing to light. Particularly given the risks to riders of some of the practices exposed.
Chuffy
Veteran
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- On the banks of the Exe
You might well ask 'why bother?' when it comes to Ulrich. Won a single Tour and retired in disgrace after Puerto. What's left to say? Indurain would be worth digging into, but it's too long after the event. Personally I'd love to see a book that gave the final word on cheating in the Tour. There are big question marks over many GC riders that I'd like to see explained. However, given that Team LA dominated the Tour (still does!) for so long and has so much of a dodgy rep, focussing on him is logical, even if you think it's wrong.Hont said:
I don't think that's the case. What they seem to be saying is that cheating hasn't gone away and we're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise. That's not what some people want to hear, but that's tough. Anyone remember the Tour of Health in '68? The clean Tour after Simpson died? Or the Tour of Renewal in '99 after Festina broke? Yeah, cycling really cleaned it's act up after both of those and anyone who points out otherwise is just slagging off the sport. B'stards, can't they see that everything in the garden is rosy?
We need the likes of Kimmage and Walsh to highlight the awkward truths that would otherwise be ignored or covered up.
