New Freewheel

[ChrisEyles]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum, and hoping you might be able to help me out with some advice.

I recently had the good fortune to inherit an old 1950s Cinelli from my father in law - all in pretty good condition (though most of the parts had been swapped out and are not original), and it's been a lot of fun to ride. On the flats it's pretty much perfect, but I'm struggling to get up some of the bigger hills around me (climbing up to Dartmoor, if you're from the UK) with the current gearing on the bike.

I've currently got a standard 53/39 crankset (by Lambert), with a 14/26 five speed freewheel (not sure which make, or if it matters), using a suntour rear derailleur with non-indexed friction shifting.

My question is, would it be possible to swap the 14-26 five speed freewheel for something like this 14/34 seven speed freewheel:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/shimano/tourney-7-speed-megarange-freewheel-ec025606

I realise I may have to change the rear wheel to do this, since the threads on old freewheels often have non-standard TPIs - this is not a problem, since I was planning on upgrading both wheels at some stage in any case.

However, I'm not sure if I'd need to change the rear derailleur to cope with the wider range of a seven speed freewheel. If I only used the big 34t rear sprocket with the small 39t front ring then this should in theory fit, since it's less than the 26t back plus 53t front combination that I'm currently able to run. The 34t back 53t front combo would almost certainly be too much for the chain, but is this a problem if you never try to shift into this gear?

I'm also not 100% sure if the chain and front crankset I currently have on the bike would be compatible with a new freewheel, does anyone with experience with old bikes have any idea about the likely compatibility issues?

If it's not possible I guess I'll just MTFU and keep on riding what I have... but it'd be awesome not to have to gurn up these tougher hills at 40rpm!

Cheers, and thanks for your help,

Chris

 

[accountantpete]

That megarange freewheel needs a long cage MTB rear mech so that you can use the 34t sprocket.

I would suggest the following:

1: Rear drop out spacing for 5 speed is 120mm (internal) and 7 speed need 126mm - so you will need to cold set the stays.

2. An alternative may be to get yourself a compact chainset with 50/34t combo together with a new BB and then get a 12-28 freewheel for use with the existing rear mech.

 

[ChrisEyles]

Thanks for the tip - shame about the megarange freewheel, but I suspected as much.

I don't necessarily need a 7-speed (5-speed is fine as long as I can get down into a lower gear), so I guess I'll leave the stays as they are if I can't fit in a 34t on the freewheel in any case.

A 50/34 compact with 12-28 freewheel would certainly give me the gears I need though, so this might well be the way to go. Good thought!

Another couple of newbie questions, if I may -

If I go for the compact and 12-28, should the chain and rear derailleur also be replaced, or would these still be OK?

Also, as it's set up at the moment, the power transmission on the bike is really good, and a big part of what makes it so much fun to ride - is there anything I should bear in mind when choosing components to keep this at the same standard?

Thanks for the help

 

[ChrisEyles]

Alternatively, would it be possible to keep the BB and just swap the chain rings over to 50/34?

 

[fossyant]

You'd normally need a new chain and maybe add a couple of links if going up to 28. Without knowing the rear mech, I'd say you may be OK with it with 28 and a compact chainset

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

I would agree with Pete that going beyond 5 speed at the back has a number of knock-on implications. Apart from cold setting (which is not necessarily a big deal if your frame is steel and not too exotic) you will likely also have to re-dish the wheel. If you want to change the wheels (assuming they are currently 27") for modern 700c with a freehub you will be talking about 130mm between locknuts and potentially requiring longer drop brakes too (which might not have the same fixing bolt configuration). While these implications sound onerous, such changes are not rare.

For 5 speed freewheels I think 12-28 are no longer commonly available, if at all. I think low cost 5 speed freewheels tend to start with 14T. If you want a wider range these are available, but are more expensive. It might be worthwhile finding out how easy or difficult it is going to be to remove the current freewheel - if it is not standard Shimano splined it might be best to get a good LBS to do it for you to save you hunting down and buying the right tool which you probably never need again.

It is impossible to tell whether your current rear mech can handle a compact chainset in conjunction with a 28T without a) knowing its make and precise model, and preferably b) knowing what the distance is currently between the top jockey wheel and the 26T rear cog. However since you are on friction it is not difficult to find a compatible modern mech since most would do. Similarly without any information on the current bb it is impossible to know whether it is compatible with any modern compact chainset. Luckily bb's don't have to be expensive to be reasonable. You don't need a new chain, unless it is worn, to go from large large of 53/26 to 50/28.

 

[ChrisEyles]

Thanks all for the advice, and for flagging up all the things I should have thought of already!

Looks like what I really need to get it the way I want is :

New compact crank (almost certainly with new bb)
14-28 5 speed on the back (and keep the stays on the frame as they are)
pair of new wheels (thinking of keeping them as 27" for the retro look)
cross fingers the RD works with the new combo, if not replace

Guess I will be needing some help from my LBS before I go out and buy all these goodies!

Cheers, and happy riding!

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Thanks all for the advice, and for flagging up all the things I should have thought of already!

Looks like what I really need to get it the way I want is :

New compact crank (almost certainly with new bb)
14-28 5 speed on the back (and keep the stays on the frame as they are)
pair of new wheels (thinking of keeping them as 27" for the retro look)
cross fingers the RD works with the new combo, if not replace

Guess I will be needing some help from my LBS before I go out and buy all these goodies!

Cheers, and happy riding!

I think it will be nearly impossible to find a new 120mm hub, 27" rim rear wheel suitable for a 5 speed freewheel for sale off the shelf.

It is because 120mm hubs nowadays are generally used only for track or ss/fixed, and 120mm hub 27" rim 5 speed wheels have been obsolete for nearly 25 years. As such most if not all new 120mm hub wheels currently are made for ss or fixed or flipflop, not dished for a 5 speed freewheel. It is however likely that many though not all such wheels can be modified to suit by respacing and redishing. An alternative is to get a suitable 130mm screw-on hub, 27" rim wheel for 6/7 speed freewheels and take 5mm of spacers off each side - no redishing should then be necessary but you might have to shorten/replace the axle too however if it is QR.

 

[ChrisEyles]

I think it will be nearly impossible to find a new 120mm hub, 27" rim rear wheel suitable for a 5 speed freewheel for sale off the shelf.

It is because 120mm hubs nowadays are generally used only for track or ss/fixed, and 120mm hub 27" rim 5 speed wheels have been obsolete for nearly 25 years. As such most if not all new 120mm hub wheels currently are made for ss or fixed or flipflop, not dished for a 5 speed freewheel. It is however likely that many though not all such wheels can be modified to suit by respacing and redishing. An alternative is to get a suitable 130mm screw-on hub, 27" rim wheel for 6/7 speed freewheels and take 5mm of spacers off each side - no redishing should then be necessary but you might have to shorten/replace the axle too however if it is QR.

how about these?

http://www.parkersofbolton.co.uk/p-...3&cadevice=c&gclid=CPLJ2IzGrbsCFWmWtAodYBcAVw

the text seems to suggest they would be OK (and they are almost certainly lighter than what |I have on there at the moment!

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

how about these?

http://www.parkersofbolton.co.uk/p-...3&cadevice=c&gclid=CPLJ2IzGrbsCFWmWtAodYBcAVw

the text seems to suggest they would be OK (and they are almost certainly lighter than what |I have on there at the moment!

Hi that is 130mm at the rear as stated so you will most likely have to spread the rear stays if you wish to use them without modification. You might want to measure your rear dropouts - I would imagine it is 120mm. If the frame is steel and non-exotic you can explore this.

If I were to cold set a frame to 130mm I would not stick with 27" rims or a threaded hub for freewheel. The choice of 27" tyres is limited, and you can get much better quality wheels if you go 700c with freehub (using cassette). However as I mentioned earlier to switch to 700c you might have to get longer drop brakes - you have to if the current calipers won't allow the pads to move lower by 4mm.

Assuming you have 120mm dropouts, if you can remove 5mm of spacers from each side of that 130mm hub 27" wheel from your link (and perhaps shorten the hollow axle by 10mm) then they should do without further modification. They are not going to be great wheels though.

 

[ChrisEyles]

Ah, I didn't spot that in the text! Thanks for the heads up.

Absolutely agree that if I'm going to have to spread the stays in any case then I may as well go for 700c (and put on a cassette instead of freewheel).

Heading down to the LBS today, since I am quickly discovering I am a little out of my depth and don't want to make any silly mistakes when buying parts.

The offending hill on my new commute is a 9% average over just over a mile... don't know how that rates in absolute terms, but I need those lower gears soon!

 

[ChrisEyles]

Thanks to everyone who chipped in with advice - much appreciated!

As an update, I've just got back from my LBS. They had a good look at the bike and componants, most of which turn out to be, though not original, quite high end ca. 1960. General consensus was that it'd be somewhat sacriligeous to swap over to a triple, and that in any case I probably shouldn't be grinding the bike into the ground on my daily commute since it may be worth something. I was also interested to find out the "small" cog on the main chainset is currently a 42, not a 39 (as I assumed). So, the Cinelli is staying for Sunday rides (preferably sans 10% inclines), and I'm looking into a hybrid for the commute.