more HR and threshold questions!

[jojo]

Hi all

only just came across this great site as i'm not a cyclist yet (hope to get into
this great sport this year at 52 years old)!

I have a few questions which I know must have been asked before but i can't find what i'm looking for so apologies if i'm repeating things.

Although I have never ridden a bike on a road (ever), I have over the last six months been do spinning classes 4 times a week and feel fitter than I've ever been so I hope i'll be ok on a real bike.

4 questions hope thats ok!

My max heart rate according to the 220 calculations should be 168 max but I find It can go to 184 or so in the final sprint of 45min class before my legs stop working,is this my lactic threshold and is my MHR more than 184? or have I got it all wrong.


I recently did a quick run on the gyms x-trainer and after 7-8 mins realized
i had'nt turned my hr monitor on,when i did it jumped all over the place and
settled down at 198 at which point i panicked and jumped off!
The bike i usually warm up was busy so i wonder if lack of warm was to blame? funny thing was though i felt fine and was hardly sweating at all.


I've read a bit about taking RHR before getting out of bed and that it "should be around 15bpm lower than usual hr but I dont understand what is ment by "usual". my normal sitting heart rate as defined by polar (sit quietly for 2-3 mins) is 55bpm should my RHR be 15 bpm less?


Does anyone take any notice of the polar VO2max test? according to my F11 mine is 50 but does that mean much?

sorry for so many questions but its all been going around in my head for a while now so it would be great to get some opinions.

look forward to hearing from you guys

thanks

 

[ttcycle]

Hi jojo welcome to CC and hope it helps you get out on a bike!

Firstly before addressing the above, why is HR so important? Are you planning to train for something?

Do also bear in mind that with running/other sports the working heart rate may be 10 beats more than cycling - different sports can mean different rates.

The 220 minus age calc is not very reliable,the best test is when you're rested, going up a hill, back down and up, and repeat a few times-there is a specific set of times -my brain's not working to recount it properly-the test is exhausting and unpleasant but you do get the Max HR that way. If hyou're new to cycling or exercise in general you may find that exertion/exercise does massively hike up the heart rate.

Are you wanting to know heart rate for training in zones? For a benchmark to measure against etc? Useful to know to offer better guidance and fully answer the questions re lactate thresholds etc

 

[PK99]

My max heart rate according to the 220 calculations should be 168 max but s

Ignore the 220-age formula, at best it is a moderate tool looking at the whole population.

for me it gives max=166, but i hit that regularly on long steady climbs and keep it there of there abouts for 10-15 minutes. i can cruise all day at 154

sub max tests suggest my max is more like 190/195 - but at my age i don't aim to get anywhere near that!! Perceived excertion = "too f***in hard" is my measure!

 

[Bill Gates]

My max heart rate according to the 220 calculations should be 168 max but I find It can go to 184 or so in the final sprint of 45min class before my legs stop working,is this my lactic threshold and is my MHR more than 184? or have I got it all wrong.

Your MHR could well be 184 on a bike as it was taken when you were going flat out. The thing is though if you were spinning and the gearing wasn't sufficiently high then the limiter might have been your legs rather than your heart. You can get an idea of MHR by riding your bike up a hill, gradually increasing your power every 2 minutes until you're on the limit, then sprint for all your worth.

The scientific way is to do a RAMP test which is on your bike in a gym under laboratory conditions. I won't go into detail but it will provide MHR, Lactic Threshold (LT is a measure of HR), Functional Threshold Power (FTP- same as LT but is measured in watts i.e.power) and VO2Max. They can all be improved on in training except MHR.

LT has been defined as the average HR bpm over a 60 minutes Time Trial or the average bpm of the last 20 minutes of a 30 minute TT.

It roughly equates to about 90% of MHR. In order to push the boundaries of LT you need to ride in the LT zone for around 20 minutes or so either on the road or on the turbo.

I recently did a quick run on the gyms x-trainer and after 7-8 mins realized
i had'nt turned my hr monitor on,when i did it jumped all over the place and
settled down at 198 at which point i panicked and jumped off!
The bike i usually warm up was busy so i wonder if lack of warm was to blame? funny thing was though i felt fine and was hardly sweating at all.

Something not quite right there. I would ignore this reading.

I've read a bit about taking RHR before getting out of bed and that it "should be around 15bpm lower than usual hr but I dont understand what is ment by "usual". my normal sitting heart rate as defined by polar (sit quietly for 2-3 mins) is 55bpm should my RHR be 15 bpm less?

There is no such thing as a normal HR as it is unlikely to ever get conditions when all things remain the same during daytime activity. There is too much variation. HR taken in bed when waking is RHR. It is what it is and on its own is not necessarily a measure of ability or fitness but a slow RHR of 36-48 is not unusal amongst cyclists. TDF winners tend to have a very slow RHR.

The real reason for taking it is to highlight any overtraining or illness which will cause the RHR to be raised and should be taken into account for training purposes.

Does anyone take any notice of the polar VO2max test? according to my F11 mine is 50 but does that mean much?

sorry for so many questions but its all been going around in my head for a while now so it would be great to get some opinions.

look forward to hearing from you guys

thanks

Not to me. I'm not one for worrying about such things. A quick google should give you an answer

 

[jojo]

Are you wanting to know heart rate for training in zones? For a benchmark to measure against etc? Useful to know to offer better guidance and fully answer the questions re lactate thresholds etc

Thanks for your replies guys,exactly as you say ttcycle, just wanted to know where my max is so i can work out where i should be when not in a class as then the spinning instructor dictates how fast your peddling.

I'm happy enough to use a percentage of 184max as for now I just want to get fitter, does 75-90% for all round fitness sound close enough? 138-165 and the occasional burst.
I can't seem to find anything about damaging your heart if your way over for long periods, but for someone new to pushing himself thought it best to know roughly what i'm doing!

I take the point by BillGates re gearing on the spinning bike dictating max speed but at the same time im pretty Knacked by then so happy enough to use my perceived max for now..


thanks for your help guys

 

[Crackle]

Jojo, some excellent stuff already posted. If you're like me and I class myself as an interested amateur i.e. I don't race, I just enjoy it for the pleasure of doing it and like to dabble with the numbers.

My personal perspective: I've done a max HR self-test similiar to Bill describes and set up zones and all that kerfuffle. Bought myself a Garmin device and enjoy using it and looking at the maps and stats. When it comes to using it as a training device, particularly if you're talking about zone training, well it's a useful guide for me but not a bible.

I personally find that using zone training is not possible without a good few months CV exercise behind you. Without that, staying in the training zones you set up is pretty difficult. As an example, a few months into running, more and more of the same run drops into a lower zone, well it would if I ran at the same speed. Instead I'd develop yourself a method of measuring your perceived effort, a nice scale, like

1. Ah nice
2. Phew
3. Jeezus
4. Feck me



Running or cycling up a hill and assessing the ease you do it and what's left at the top serves pretty well. Put that against the numbers from your HR and you'll start to make sense of it.

Also look for changes in your normal HR, resting particularly but also out training. If it it doesn't look as it normally does over a route you could be tired or you could be ill both indications to slow down or knock it on the head.

 

[jojo]

thanks for you your advice guys, its beginning to make sense now.I will keep going.

thanks again

 

[ttcycle]

Hi Jojo

I would second what Crackle has said - definitely if you're new to this work on the basis of how much you think you are exerting when exercising as that's a very good indicator and can sometimes tell you a lot esp in conjunction with heart rate.

A good way to measure yourself early on is to see how much you improve on something. Say for the spin classes,pace yourself and with enough practice you may find they get easier though if done properly they're supposed to be quite punishing.

 

[zacklaws]

I just enjoy it for the pleasure of doing it and like to dabble with the numbers.

I'm exactly same as Crackle, I cycle for the enjoyment and also to help keep fit and keep my weight down but to me its the "numbers" from my Garmin that keeps me going. I treat my cycling as if I'm training for "The Tour" but I'll never race in my life, I'd love too though, but probably left it too late in my life.

My age is a shadow under 55 now, and can get my heart rate into the 190's, but it is down to the conditions. On my Trek 1.2, double chainset, pushing up a steep hill at 4mph with a cadence of around 30, my heart rate soars into the 190's, even made over 200 bpm on occasions. The same hill on my Madone, with a triple chainset, pushing as hard as I can go, cadence around 65, around 7 mph, the highest I can get to date is just 175 bpm, but usually sits around 171 bpm, perhaps I'm not trying hard enough on the Madone.

On my Turbo though, I find it really hard and demanding to get over 180 bpm and that is with maximum resistance and pedalling as fast as I can go, for as long as I can, looking at my records, my maximum on the turbo is 175, but going up the hill on my Trek 1.2 is easier but rockets my heart rate?

 

[Bill Gates]

I just enjoy it for the pleasure of doing it and like to dabble with the numbers.

I'm exactly same as Crackle, I cycle for the enjoyment and also to help keep fit and keep my weight down but to me its the "numbers" from my Garmin that keeps me going. I treat my cycling as if I'm training for "The Tour" but I'll never race in my life, I'd love too though, but probably left it too late in my life.

My age is a shadow under 55 now, and can get my heart rate into the 190's, but it is down to the conditions. On my Trek 1.2, double chainset, pushing up a steep hill at 4mph with a cadence of around 30, my heart rate soars into the 190's, even made over 200 bpm on occasions. The same hill on my Madone, with a triple chainset, pushing as hard as I can go, cadence around 65, around 7 mph, the highest I can get to date is just 175 bpm, but usually sits around 171 bpm, perhaps I'm not trying hard enough on the Madone.

On my Turbo though, I find it really hard and demanding to get over 180 bpm and that is with maximum resistance and pedalling as fast as I can go, for as long as I can, looking at my records, my maximum on the turbo is 175, but going up the hill on my Trek 1.2 is easier but rockets my heart rate?

When you were riding your Trek were you in a group? If so it could be you were picking up another rider's numbers.

190/200? IMO too high to be accurate for your age.

 

[zacklaws]

There cannot be any interference as usually I am on my own on most rides, plus when I am with others no one else uses a HR monitor.

Last year though I did get some spurious readings hitting 260+. What had happened was it was that hot I had to open my shirt wide to keep cool, but that caused my ID card round my neck to start flapping around so to prevent it happening I stuck it in the belt of MY HR monitor at the side.

Whilst on the North York Moors pushing up them big hills I began to notice these high readings at the top of the hills but blamed it on the AEW site at RAF Fylingdales with their phased array radar system. It was only when I got back into my own territory that I began to think there was some other cause and whilst going up a hill, the moment the HR rocketed, I pulled the ID card from the belt and the reading dropped to a more normal reading

Perhaps its possible that when I get to a very high HR that possibly the belt itself may cause a bit of the same effect that my ID card did, possibly caused by an echo? The only difference is the 260+ was big sudden spikes, the 190's was gradual climbs over a period of time.