guttertrash
Über Member
- Location
- Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Maybe all cyclists should sign this
- Thread starter guttertrash
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Banjo
Fuelled with Jelly Babies
- Location
- South Wales
Would like to and today is the last day to sign but the system has crashed, hopefully due to huge numbers of people signing it.
I really do think that motorists would be more worried about their liability in the event of an accident than they are about cyclists safety.
I really do think that motorists would be more worried about their liability in the event of an accident than they are about cyclists safety.
MrHappyCyclist
Riding the Devil's HIghway
- Location
- Bolton, England
Can't get the site to work. (Tried Firefox on Linux and IE on Windows XP.)
To be honest, I prefer presumed liability rather than strict liability. If some scrote on a BSO jumps a red light and ends up under my car, I want to be able to argue that it was their fault.
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
My only concern is that imposing higher penalties to cyclists is just a punch of words. How many penalties are actually handed out to people who cycle dangeroulsly?
Just look at the introduction of penalties for driving whilst using your mobile phone, it hasn't stopped people from doing it.
Just look at the introduction of penalties for driving whilst using your mobile phone, it hasn't stopped people from doing it.
But people on BSO's aren't cyclists. at least that is the opinion of some cyclists
Davidc
Guru
- Location
- Somerset UK
The principle is right, but it needs to include pedestrians and motor cycles, and change to presumed liability before I'd agree with it.
MrHappyCyclist
Riding the Devil's HIghway
- Location
- Bolton, England
It's currently showing 14 signatures. Not really overwhelming!
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
hmm... petitions. the great way to be collectively ignored 
Banjo
Fuelled with Jelly Babies
- Location
- South Wales
MrHappyCyclist
Riding the Devil's HIghway
- Location
- Bolton, England
Only need another 99 886 sigs before midnight then
Niccolò Machiavelli said:
guttertrash
Über Member
- Location
- Chesterfield, Derbyshire
It closes in 2012 
I think the 'strict liability' thing is just a mis-understanding as that term has been used improperly alot in recent times as regards this idea.
I think the idea was that the cyclist doesn't have to prove that the driver was doing something wrong, its down to the driver to prove the cyclist was doing something wrong... in so many cases, the cyclist isn't in court to prove anything....
I think the 'strict liability' thing is just a mis-understanding as that term has been used improperly alot in recent times as regards this idea.
I think the idea was that the cyclist doesn't have to prove that the driver was doing something wrong, its down to the driver to prove the cyclist was doing something wrong... in so many cases, the cyclist isn't in court to prove anything....
Matthew_T
"Young and Ex-whippet"
- Location
- Prestatyn, North Wales
In arguementitive cases this is so, but in relation to incidents where the cyclist has complained about the driver, I dont think the situation would be like that. The cyclist would have to prove the driver was in the wrong.
MrHappyCyclist
Riding the Devil's HIghway
- Location
- Bolton, England
That is the situation in UK at present, and the whole point of the petition is to get that changed.
Under presumed liability, the driver would be assumed at fault unless thay could prove otherwise. This is the situation in most European countries.
There is a misconception that this goes against the principle of "innocent until proved guilty", but that principle relates to criminal law, whereas presumed liability relates to civil law.
In civil law, judgements are made on the balance of probabilities. The DfT stats show that the cyclist is almosy always the injured party in collisions between cycles and motor vehicles, and research published a couple of years ago showed that the motorist is to blame in the majority of those cases. It is clear therefore that the motor vehicle brings almost all of the risk to the situation. Given this, it is absurd that the victim bears the burdon of proof in such cases, hence the calls for presumed liability of motor vehicles.
It is also arguable on a similar basis that the cyclist should be presumed liable in collisions with pedestrians.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Done.
snorri
Legendary Member
- Location
- East coast, up a bit.
Well intentioned but poorly worded 
It's a pity the petitioner had not asked for some legal/expert advice before submitting.
It's a pity the petitioner had not asked for some legal/expert advice before submitting.
