Loose Bottom Bracket. Sugino Impel. Tools and Method advice please.

[Mr Cotter Pin]

Hello all,

RE: Sugino Impel Chainset.

Thank you for reading this.

I have a mountain bike (a recent purchase) and it has a loose bottom bracket.

I would like to find out what the actual remedy is but need to get the spindle out and look at the gubbins etc. (I'm half hoping that the inset into the frame needs to be tightened but it is probably a bit more than that).

I've added a picture below of what confronts me.

First off I see I need a spline tool but what baffles me is the piece of steel that has 'SEALED CARTRIDGE' stamped on it. What is it and how does that come off?

You have probably gathered by now that I am used to old school tooling and cotter pins.

Thanks in advance for any advice on this.

 

[Cycleops]

You'll need a special tool to remove the end caps.
Once removed you should be able to replace the born BB with the correct size replacement. It'll be a sealed unit.

Edit: This is the tool you'll need but where to get one in the U.K. I don't know:

I'll give you the link to this Japanese site:
https://www.suginoltd.co.jp/store/products/detail.php?product_id=82
About £13.

You might be able to grab the external part of the cap in a vice and remove it like that.

 

[Sharky]

With a sealed cartridge, you can't dismantle to see the gubbins inside. If there is play in the gubbins, you need a new sealed cartridge.

 

[DRM]

View: https://youtu.be/yBnYoYVTnlo

This explains how to do it

 

[Cycleops]

With a sealed cartridge, you can't dismantle to see the gubbins inside. If there is play in the gubbins, you need a new sealed cartridge.

Not according to RJ

View: https://youtu.be/lar7mIMmTRE

 

[DRM]

You'll need a special tool to remove the end caps.
Once removed you should be able to replace the born BB with the correct size replacement. It'll be a sealed unit.

Edit: This is the tool you'll need but where to get one I don't know:
View attachment 582291
I'll give you the link to this Japanese site:
https://www.suginoltd.co.jp/store/products/detail.php?product_id=82
About £13.

You might be able to grab the external part of the cap in a vice and remove it like that.

It looks like a 20 spline tool, I wonder if the Shimano tool would do the job?

 

[Cycleops]

You can only but try. I’ll bet Mr Cotter Pin is wishing he had cotter pins instead

 

[Big John]

@Mr Cotter Pin if this is your first BB change then all I can add to the thread is that the drive side is the hardest to get out usually. Although the tool shown above appears to be ratchet friendly you still have to keep it fixed onto the cup, which is far from easy most of the time. As soon as you give it a bit of leverage off it jumps. What I do is fix the tool into the cup with a bolt and large washer to hold it on. Now it can't move. I think it takes a 24mm spanner but you can use a sturdy adjustable if you have one. Give it some beans if necessary, even a pipe wrench if you have to BUT remember it's a left hand thread 👍

 

[fossyant]

And be extra careful with those plastic locking cups - I buy BB's with aluminium cups.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Take note of @Big John's advice, especially with that left side plastic fitting, using the 20-spline tool. The OP's doesn't look too bad, but they get brittle with age. For the avoidance of doubt, the left hand side fitting has a 'normal' thread direction but the right hand side one (normally harder to get out) is 'wrong' (LH thread).
Once out you'll be able to measure the spindle (more) easily, to go with the BB shell width (probably 73mm). The best replacement option is a UN-300 (replacement for the excellent UN-55): it has metal fittings both sides, as favoured by @fossyant.

 

[Mr Cotter Pin]

Hello all,

Thanks for all the input. Indeed I do wish we were looking at cotter pins, as they are so much simpler to understand.
Thanks for the heads up regarding the clock-wise direction to undo the cup on the drive side. I was going to ask about that as I was unsure. BTW the cup looks to have a small crack, at about the 7 o'clock position, in the picture I originally loaded.
I've not looked at the video links as yet but am most grateful for them. I feel somewhat reassured that you 'might' get to see the bearings afterall.

Thank you.

 

[matticus]

Although the tool shown above appears to be ratchet friendly you still have to keep it fixed onto the cup, which is far from easy most of the time. As soon as you give it a bit of leverage off it jumps. What I do is fix the tool into the cup with a bolt and large washer to hold it on. Now it can't move.

Good advice.

I have a version of this tool with a built-in springy bolt to do the job you describe. It's a godsend!

 

[Mr Cotter Pin]

Thanks all. I've now seen the two videos clips. I like the idea of being able to refurb the sealed units so I plan to go down that route. Was wondering though regarding whether the Shimano tool would do the same job as the Sugino? I think they are interchangeable. The Park BB-22 tool presents itself as being a Shimano compatible and one of the questions on the product page asks whether it would fit a the Sugino CBB-SG75. Answer to which is yes. Not sure if my Sugino is a CBB-SG75 but the cones look, design wise, the same.

https://www.parktool.com/product/bottom-bracket-tool-bbt-22

 

[Ajax Bay]

My earnest recommendation to you is to whip it out and replace. Then enjoy trying to break into the cartridge bearing and exploring its refurbishment. The last one of these I pulled out of an MTB (last month) was in a shocking state (bike from tip before lockdown). Extraction (left side) was brutal (vital to hold tool splines in place). A UN-55 screwed in easily (after thorough clean-up and with grease (obv)) and bike is now being ridden.

Sugino Impel Chainset
. . . .
The Park BB-22 tool presents itself as being a Shimano compatible and one of the questions on the product page asks whether it would fit a the Sugino CBB-SG75. Answer to which is yes. Not sure if my Sugino is a CBB-SG75 but the cones look, design wise, the same.

In my opinion, you are overthinking this. The 20-spline tool will get out the BB you have in there; and screw it back in (refurbished) or its replacement. Your mention of a Sugino CBB-SG75 BB is a red herring (but 'yes' the tool will fit that too).
Sheldon advice on the taper on the square taper needed:

'97 Impel 5-bolt

Triple

110-113

Square

110/74

2001

So I'd procure a UN-300 in (assume) 113mm flavour (but better to measure first). Spa Cycles have Stronglight equivalent.
From this link: "Brand new for 2016, Sugino has introduced the CBB-SG75. This is the sealed bearing version of the Sugino 75 keirin track racing bottom bracket set. It is for 68mm-width bottom bracket shell frames and has a 111mm symmetrical axle, BSC thread with ISO taper."
Does your chainset need a JIS or an ISO square taper BB? Sheldon From there:
"J.I.S. models include:

• Sugino (except N.J.S. track models and some older units.)"

 

[overmind]

... or you could go old-school?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bike-BOT...334156?hash=item58b08fc50c:g:eYUAAOSw00Vfu8vx