Liability debate live.

[snorri]

We can listen to the Liability debate at Holyrood live at 17.00 today (Tuesday 29th Oct)

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/newsandmediacentre/3168.aspx

 

[dellzeqq]

I'll be at work and then on a train. Will it be available after the event?

 

[snorri]

.

I'll be at work and then on a train. Will it be available after the event?

There is an "Archive Video" facility, but it is not clear if Members' Business is archived for public viewing.

One of my List MSPs informs me the Tory Party are agin it.

 

[snorri]

Will it be available after the event?

Here's the transcript of the full debate

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2013-10-29.7.0#g7.1

 

[glenn forger]

Interesting and balanced, ta snorri.

 

[dellzeqq]

Here's the transcript of the full debate

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2013-10-29.7.0#g7.1

thankyou, Snorri

 

[dellzeqq]

Snorri. Are MSPs always this courteous?????????????

 

[Spinney]

Patrick Harvey, good man...

There is a real need to address the responsibility that people feel. The responsibility that somebody feels when they are moving a tonne or two of metal through the streets must be substantially greater than the responsibility that somebody feels when they are moving a couple of tens of kilos of metal through the streets. Moving a bicycle through the streets at a modest pace is still a significant thing to do and it bears a significant responsibility, but it is clear that the responsibility of somebody who is driving a couple of tonnes of metal through the streets at a much higher velocity must be greater.

And even a Tory (John Lamont)

Presumed liability should be considered because there is a good argument that it is fair, it would make our roads safer and it would encourage cycling. It is fair because it acknowledges that there is a clear imbalance of road users, and those driving a vehicle that is capable of causing harm to others should exercise caution. In virtually every collision between a car and vulnerable road user, it will be the pedestrian or the cyclist who is injured. It is therefore reasonable to place a greater burden of proof on the motorist.

 

[glenn forger]

To be honest, I was amazed at how calm and reasonable the debate was. Not one speaker claimed their gran had been killed eleventy times by a lycra nazi.

 

[dellzeqq]

I've now read the entire transcript and it was impressive. Odd, too, because drivers in Scotland - from top to bottom, are, in my considerable experience, considerably less watchful and a deal more aggressive than drivers in London. But here we have people discussing a matter that might (or might not) make a huge difference to cyclists and pedestrians, entailing a considerable change in the law.

In 1975 and 1976 I spent some months in Vancouver. They had a variant of strict liability. Car insurance was state owned and would not pay out if you drove in to a pedestrian. The result was a kind of pedestrian nirvana . Vancouver seemed to me to be the high point in civilisation (and the girls were pretty). If strict liability had a similar chilling effect on the drivers in Scotland it would be the happiest of days.

 

[RedRider]

Thanks, also. It was great to see pedestrians given equal importance in opening the debate and it's good tactically for cyclists to emphasise the point too.
Edited: to remove pro independence sentiments which could derail the thread

 

[snorri]

A bit more on the debate here from an Edinburgh Councillor
http://www.theedinburghreporter.co....n-the-holyrood-cycling-debate/comment-page-1/

I was pleased at the reasoned approach, for the most part, of all of the speakers. Just a little disappointed that most of the anecdotes referred to incidents in Edinburgh city, none referred to the dangers faced on rural roads, which if one looks at the crash stats is where a worryingly high number of cycle KSIs have occurred.

 

[RedRider]

This call for empirical data re fall in injuries/accidents following the introduction of strict(er) liability in other jurisdictions... has respectable before/after research been done on this? Can it be got?