Larger nipples

[silva]

That's certainly relevant. Who makes that large nipple?

The linked article refers Sapim.
But Sapim seems to provide a kinda problem-solver product for existing rims.
Who makes rims with such big holes, and why?
What's the point of having a wider rim / bigger tyres, to sustain heavier loads, to then use standard spokes?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

The linked article refers Sapim.

Thanks, right in front of my eyes.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

https://sapim.be/nipples/washers

 

[Ajax Bay]

The replacement rim is a Mavic CXP Elite. I'm sure it was supposed to have eyelets but I didn't inspect it closely when it arrived and I now realise that they are missing. The spoke holes are 5.5mm in diameter.

It looks like the holes are eyelet-ready but missed the next phase of production i.e. having eyelets fitted. Those holes seem huge.

this looks like a factory oopsie sold on by an unscrupulous e-bayer.

"Most rims are drilled for 14g spokes with rim holes [(with or without eyelets) that present] between 4.2mm and 4.5mm in diameter."
And I've just measured a couple of eyeleted rims and unsurprisingly the spoke holes are in this tolerance bracket. So a rim (in this case a CXP Elite) made for eyelets to be fitted (during manufacture) will have drilled spoke holes of a mm more, as the OP has found (5.5mm).

"If the rim holes are too large, the rim becomes materially weakened and stress cracks may form around the spoke holes."
If the OP goes down the washer route, they need to bear in mind this is a narrow rim (15mm IRW) so the spoke bed will be narrow too (?<8mm). The oval washers (image above) will be too wide (9mm). I have tried to check a similar Mavic rim but inside the box section it's too difficult to get a decent measurement.
Maybe these are the best option (and narrow enough): https://www.customcutspokes.co.uk/shop/bicycle-spoke-nipples/nipple-washers/sapim-hm-nipple-washer/
Also bear in mind the effective ERD will increase by 4mm (so spokes will need to be 2mm longer). This assumes the OP has measured their rim. The published ERD (for a properly eyeleted rim) might only need a 2mm ERD augmentation.

I suggest that using a mal-manufactured rim is not sensible: recycle it with due care.
The large headed nipple image from the link @silva shared is for 13g gauge spokes: they will not fit on the OP's 14g spokes (2mm)(assumed).

 

[Mr Celine]

Thanks for the helpful replies everyone.
The oval washers appear to be the best solution depending on how wide they are. They have to be able to pass through the holes in the outer rim (the bit the rim tape sits on) and those holes have a diameter of 8.5mm.

@Ajax Bay where did you get the 9mm measurement for the oval washers? I can't find the dimensions listed anywhere. I managed to find the old eyeleted rim and the spoke bed appears to be a slightly different profile, though it's hard to tell for sure. The new rim seems to have a more evenly curved spoke bed, rather than flat with an angle to the side wall. Also, why would the ERD change from the previous wheel if washers are used? Surely the lack of eyelets would reduce the ERD, thereby cancelling out any increase from the washers?

 

[Ajax Bay]

From a seller's description:
https://ambikeco.com/product/sapim-small-oval-nipple-washers/
12.9mm x 9mm (for 14g spokes)
"Why would the ERD change from the previous wheel if washers are used?"
On ERD, I would measure the new rim myself and take account of the washers. The previous rim is just that.
If you use the published ERD for this CXP Elite rim (which will assume the rim has eyelets) then washers will add a couple of mm (one each 'end') because, imho, they'll lift the contact ring c.f. an eyelet (but no big deal).
I was not clear.

 

[silva]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wheelbuild/comments/ub0aki/mavic_cxp_elite_build_32h_no_eyelets_big_gap/
3 years ago, similar story.

Do they make CXP Elites without eyelets? I looked them up and all the pictures were of eyeleted rims. As long as the nipple flange has enough material to butt up against it should be OK. Nipple washers are good for non-eyeleted rims.

2 times oops?
Decided to duckduckgo fake bicycle rim mavic
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/mavic-warns-against-buying-fake-wheels-281435

Dated Mar 03, 2021 13:30

Apparently counterfeiters bothered enough to produce replica's for the Mavic brand.
Missing eyelets are not mentioned specifically, though.
They bothered to test some "replicas", conclusion was that they're dangerous due to big tolerances and much inferior specs.
So, a replica is *possible*.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Thanks for the helpful replies everyone.
The oval washers appear to be the best solution depending on how wide they are. They have to be able to pass through the holes in the outer rim (the bit the rim tape sits on) and those holes have a diameter of 8.5mm.

@Ajax Bay where did you get the 9mm measurement for the oval washers? I can't find the dimensions listed anywhere. I managed to find the old eyeleted rim and the spoke bed appears to be a slightly different profile, though it's hard to tell for sure. The new rim seems to have a more evenly curved spoke bed, rather than flat with an angle to the side wall. Also, why would the ERD change from the previous wheel if washers are used? Surely the lack of eyelets would reduce the ERD, thereby cancelling out any increase from the washers?

I found some large nipples in my collection of obscure vintage stock. They are nipples used on Dura Ace 7700 or 7400 wheels. About 6mm I'd say but will need a special nipple spanner. I'll take some photos and measurements tonight if you want to explore this avenue.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Decided to duckduckgo fake bicycle rim mavic
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/mavic-warns-against-buying-fake-wheels-281435
Apparently counterfeiters bothered enough to produce replica's for the Mavic brand.

Well sleuthed, but this link is to carbon rims (ie high end, worth counterfeiting) that fail on a simple hard (rim) braking test.

 

[silva]

Well sleuthed, but this link is to carbon rims (ie high end, worth counterfeiting) that fail on a simple hard (rim) braking test.

Roadcc author didn't bother to mention that in the article. I do not enable scripting if not needed, which caused pics to not show up, I did now, and saw that pic showing the sidewall of the rim as a mesh fiber reinforcement instead of grinded / broken alu.
And it explains why they bothered to make fakes - which surprised me, and carbon explains it.

Nevertheless, the reddit post, dated almost 3 years ago (2022-04-24), talks about a second occasion of "forgotten" eyelets, for this same Mavic CXP elite, while topicstarter Mr Celine said rim purchased 2 years ago.

 

[Mr Celine]

An update for anyone interested -

A packet of 9mm oval nipple washers weren't expensive so I gave them a go.

The don't fit through the holes without some force, but by warming the rim with a heat gun first this is easy enough.

Wheel is now built up again, trued, dished trued again and passed today's test ride with no issues.

 

[presta]

Nipple washer.

That sounds like an intriguing occupation.

 

[silva]

Isn't the overlap between washer and large spoke hole rather minimalistic?
To me it looks like the nipples are gonna bend the middle / inside of the washers resulting in spokes losing tension.

 

[si_c]

Isn't the overlap between washer and large spoke hole rather minimalistic?
To me it looks like the nipples are gonna bend the middle / inside of the washers resulting in spokes losing tension.

That's the upper wall of the rim, the lower wall is where the spoke bed is and the holes are much smaller - those holes are larger to allow for nipple washers and tools to reach the spokes.