It's a plan!

[Kirstie]

It's a plan - need advice first!

I've decided that next year I'm going to concentrate on getting better at climbing on the road - I'm really quite a rubbish climber although I don't lack the stamina to get up big steep hills - it just doesn't happen very quickly. Part of the problem is that I'm not built for it (I'm short and stocky with lots of upper body strength and not in any way lithe or skinny), but in my favour I have really good base fitness and a lot of endurance too. I probably could also do with losing a stone, but then couldn't we all? :?:

So I'm guessing I need to concentrate on intervals from about january, which is usually my general plan anyway, and also make an effort to go and ride in lots of hilly places like yorkshire, wales etc. I'm doing this for myself rather than to enter events and I'm not particularly interested in sportives although I might try the odd permanent.

My question is what kind of intervals? What kind of balance should I strike between length of the total interval session, length of the intervals in the session and the difficulty of the intervals within the session?

I usually peaked at about a 45 minute session with intervals of one minute each progressively increasing in resistance, sustaining the resistance and then decreasing it again. It hurt but I managed it twice a week and it worked for racing (in combination with a number of other things). Climbing is different though.

So, advice please, roadie types!

 

[jimboalee]

Climbing a hill is essentially the same as accelerating without getting any faster. The trouble with England, the East Midlands esp. is there are no long hills. Not any that require more than five minutes.

I could suggest the Castleton Classic rando in April, followed by the Midland Grimp in July?

Anyway, as for training. What is needed is some sort of device which impedes your forward progress to simulate a hill.
Try finding someone who will lend you a kiddie trailer. load it up with some boulders and attach a rubber block which drags on the tarmac.

A really novel method I saw in the States was a guy towing a dragster parachute.

 

[ColinJ]

Anyway, as for training. What is needed is some sort of device which impedes your forward progress to simulate a hill.

My mate once did the first 55 miles of the Manchester 100 with his rear brake jammed on. He certainly looked as though he'd done some good 'training' by the time he realised why he felt so knackered .

 

[oxbob]

She need's to put that pint down 1st!!!

 

[fossyant]

Any big hills climbs where you are...... if there are...ride them lots....if not track down the better ones and ride them..

Depends upon your climbing style.... I see lots...

If you have good upper body strength, then are your legs up to grinding, out of saddle for 5 mins plus...

It's all aerobic capacity and ability to push to the max, be it spinning or grinding.... the latter takes good leg and core body strength.

IMHO, you need to find the lumpiest route you can near home and ride it... LOTS.... lumpy by meaning hills..... and ride them hard....

I'm not the best person to advise as I'm old school..big gears.. grind, but can get up anything in the Peak District in a 39 x 21.... 39 x 25 is probably better though.....

I went on a little jaunt last night up a local very steep hill.... road bike would have been 39 x 21, swearing and cursing.... went up in a 26 x 21 on the MTB in the dark . pitch black, but found myself spinning out, sitting down...just felt so odd on the commuter, as it's not been out of the 46 ring since using it for commuting.... had to slow down....

 

[Kirstie]

She need's to put that pint down 1st!!!

I can't I'm stuck in this photo with it!

Gnnnnnnnn....it won't budge, sorry...

 

[Crackle]

What's the ultimate aim. Short steep hills done faster, longer hills done faster and with something left, the alps ......?

The advice I've read about training for Alpine routes is to effectively use TT training as it's that kind of constant effort you need to get up them.

Short hills would demand being able to put out your maximum power for longer so yes intervals, ones which will develop strength and then stamina to increase the time you can put the effort out.

I don't think you need hills to do it actually, in fact in the beginning for controlling the effort flat intervals would do, perhaps progressing to hills which match your interval training.

As for the intervals themselves I would say that the race training you've already done but adopted slightly, maybe less of them and longer at higher gears with a slightly lower cadence but not so low as to do your knees no good.

 

[Tim Bennet.]

A couple of things:

1. January is probably too early to be doing intervals. All cycling performance needs a solid foundation of lots of steady, base miles each winter. Then most important is to concentrate on not getting ill or injured.

2. Although you have lots of 'upper body strength', actually core strength is more important. They can be very different. Nearly all cyclists would benefit from spending from now to the New Year rolling around on one of those big inflatable balls with their legs in the air.

3. Faster hill climbing is about raising your aerobic / anaerobic threshold. Intervals are the way to do it, but only rolling terrain is needed. But any interval training is a waste of time if the base miles have not been done. Base mile training is actually quite hard to do as the winter cold, short days, shitty weather, love of mountain biking make adopting the 'shorter but harder must be just as good' plan so attractive. It isn't.

4. Don't be suckered into believing that big gears mean fast hill climbing. Find a style that works for you, and if you are a mtb cross over, don't be bullied out of sitting and twiddling gears if that is what you like. Mrs TB rides both disciplines and can finish amongst the top few women on the Etape and any other hilly sortive with a 26x26 bottom gear.

 

[Kirstie]

Thanks Crackle and Tim!

A couple of things:

1. January is probably too early to be doing intervals. All cycling performance needs a solid foundation of lots of steady, base miles each winter. Then most important is to concentrate on not getting ill or injured.

OK, noted! Definitely have the solid foundation and will continue on that front. Does this mean I can buy more assos winter gear?

2. Although you have lots of 'upper body strength', actually core strength is more important. They can be very different. Nearly all cyclists would benefit from spending from now to the New Year rolling around on one of those big inflatable balls with their legs in the air.

Tick. I've been doing advanced pilates for 2 years now and so have good core strength.

3. Faster hill climbing is about raising your aerobic / anaerobic threshold. Intervals are the way to do it, but only rolling terrain is needed. But any interval training is a waste of time if the base miles have not been done. Base mile training is actually quite hard to do as the winter cold, short days, shitty weather, love of mountain biking make adopting the 'shorter but harder must be just as good' plan so attractive. It isn't.

See 1 above.

4. Don't be suckered into believing that big gears mean fast hill climbing. Find a style that works for you, and if you are a mtb cross over, don't be bullied out of sitting and twiddling gears if that is what you like. Mrs TB rides both disciplines and can finish amongst the top few women on the Etape and any other hilly sortive with a 26x26 bottom gear.

OK - bottom gear is currently 34 - 27. I'll see how I get on. But I think I prefer spinning.

 

[Ravenz]

2. Although you have lots of 'upper body strength', actually core strength is more important. They can be very different. Nearly all cyclists would benefit from spending from now to the New Year rolling around on one of those big inflatable balls with their legs in the air.

think about getting into the GYM for a program of core strength and upper and a lower body split strengthening.. DB lunges.. leg presses, leg extensions and curls.. using dumbells promotes core stability

then again, a lot depends on how you want to get up the hills... spin fast up 'em or develop some 'torquieness'...

come 'on spill the beans...how do you see yourself climbing..? !

 

[jimboalee]

+1 on Tim Bennet. But what is the anaerobic threshold?

Strength is judged by the amount of work a person can do in a single rep. Some people are particularly strong without having large muscles. It’s the way each individual is built.

Stamina ( and fitness ) is judged by the duration a person's muscles can repeat a movement. To increase stamina, and achieve the description of 'fit', the muscles have to be capillarised. That means lots of small blood vessels shifting oxygen and CO2. Without them, the muscles will be starved of oxygen and start working anaerobically.

So the greater the muscles are capillarised, the more oxygen can be transported and the anaerobic threshold is raised.
There is only one way to do this, and that is a progressively increase workload every training session.

 

[jimboalee]

PS. Blood vessels are made of smooth muscle and need protein to build. Eat some after every training session. 1g per kg of bodyweight.

 

[Kirstie]

Ravenz: How do I see myself climbing? Just faster! I can spin away with the best of em, but it takes ages, so I think I need to be able to spin the lower gears faster and get more power out of it. What you have described is my usual gym weights workout, but I've not been in the gym to do it for a while because I've been out riding instead. I like to concentrate on gym things when it's cold in the winter, but apparently from Feb onwards would be best. Of can I start doing that stuff now? That would be good.

I've worked on and improved my anaerobic threshold deliberately every year for about the last 4 years but that was geared towards MTB racing rather than climbing for long periods. I would like to do the route des grandes alpes in the summer so I guess sustained effort for 3+ hours to get up some of those beasts!

 

[jimboalee]

MTB racing is all about strength intervals. You don't necessarily need to raise your anaerobic threshold for this. It might be advantageous to carbo-load days before a MTB event and let the muscle's own stores provide the energy for the race, gulping in oxygen on the downhill parts of the course.

Climbing a long road hill requires stamina.

OP – Are you racing the route des grandes alpes or taking a sight seeing tour and enjoying the scenery?
If it is the latter, there is no need to ride fast.

 

[Tim Bennet.]

I think there's a little bit of a muddle here!

Mountain bike racing is often a combination of lactate producing climbing effort followed by aerobic recovery on the down hills. Even 'big climbs' are measured in minutes rather than many hours. This combination of intense anaerobic exercise and recovery periods (even if they go for hours) is ironically not analogous with longer endurance type events where continuous and sustained steady state effort will be required. Big road hill climbs in contrast need you to raise your power output at a level that doesn't produce lactic acid. This is known variously as the maximal lactate steady state, or anaerobic threshold. In some ways a three hour climb of the Galibier is (physiologically) more of an endurance event than taking alternative laps for 24 hours on the Red Bull.

From now till the New Year is the classic weight training season for cyclists. Coaches vary with their opinion of using weights after that. Although I don't see a down side, from Feb onwards there is usually not enough time as doing other things are more important. High reps with low weights are most commonly advocated, with some people doing no leg work whatsoever. Cross training on a rowing machine is probably all the leg work you need till Christmas, together with some gentle rides at the weekend. (one mountain bike ride per week is allowed till March, but should be seen as the sole 'hard' session you need in a week).

The good news is that working specifically to raise your maximal lactate steady state ability has no disadvantage on shorter events. If I was to guess (having never met or even seen you!) I would guess that you need to spend from now to March doing less intense, steadier but longer work outs and trusting (your HR monitor ?) to keep your effort down, but consistent.