Is this any good?

[Old timer]

Can`t afford an expensive unit but need to keep up the exercise when the weather is poor. Is this worth a try http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=18875&rt=0&rid=1455574&src=00062&

Pros and cons

Thanks

 

[lukesdad]

D ont know the make. You might be better off looking for a second hand one plenty about as the main prob. with any turbo trainer is boredom hence the plentifull supply of second hand ones.

 

[AlanW]

The bottom line is something is better than nothing. However, this particular version (which is the same as the earlier Elite ones) has a number of "issues" shall we say.

I had the Elite version of this 20 years ago:-

1) It is very noisy thanks to the fan that is creating the resistance.

2) Because it is the fan creating the resistance, the pedalling action can become choppy.

3) It only has a very small light weight flywheel, which again makes the chopping effect worse.

4) It is quite limited as to what you can do, other than pedal. In other words, you can load the resistance other than changing up a gear and pedalling faster.

IMHO save your money and get something a bit better. The Minoura Mag 500 for example, found it for £89 here

But there are loads to choice from and thats just one example that IMHO is better than your first choice.

Personally I use the Tacx Flow, marvellous piece of kit with huge amounts of options to keep you entertained. But of course this is reflected in the price at around £300. But I have had it three years now and have done roughly 2000 miles on it. Money well spent as far as I am concerned.

 

[Old timer]

The bottom line is something is better than nothing. However, this particular version (which is the same as the earlier Elite ones) has a number of "issues" shall we say.

I had the Elite version of this 20 years ago:-

1) It is very noisy thanks to the fan that is creating the resistance.

2) Because it is the fan creating the resistance, the pedalling action can become choppy.

3) It only has a very small light weight flywheel, which again makes the chopping effect worse.

4) It is quite limited as to what you can do, other than pedal. In other words, you can load the resistance other than changing up a gear and pedalling faster.

IMHO save your money and get something a bit better. The Minoura Mag 500 for example, found it for £89 here

But there are loads to choice from and thats just one example that IMHO is better than your first choice.

Personally I use the Tacx Flow, marvellous piece of kit with huge amounts of options to keep you entertained. But of course this is reflected in the price at around £300. But I have had it three years now and have done roughly 2000 miles on it. Money well spent as far as I am concerned.

Thanks Alan

Nothing really changes you generally get exactly what you pay for.

 

[lukesdad]

Thanks Alan

Nothing really changes you generally get exactly what you pay for.

Thats why its worth looking for a second hand one people get bored with them pretty quickly sometimes with hardly any use.

 

[AlanW]

Thanks Alan

Nothing really changes you generally get exactly what you pay for.

That's a fact of life isnt it! Plus the fact, now really is a bad time of year to buy one, as demand is high.

Like I say, do some further research, and then combine that with what your absolute maximum budget is, then just bide your time and wait for the end of winter sales.

I would also tend to stick towards the more well known brands, Tacx, Elite, Minoura etc. Other wise getting spares could be a problem?

 

[screenman]

For those that do not know, a lot of the choppy feeling on a turbo comes from having a rear wheel that is out of true one way or another. In the early days of turbo's I played about with making the roller stay against the tyre not by a using the threaded bolt bit, but by using a spring loaded system. This allows the turbo roller to keep the same pressure against the tyre, even on a wheel that is oblong.

The turbo I have been using for too many years has the spring system as standard. Cateye Cylcosimulator, CS-1000 Brilliant piece of kit and from experience last for years. Unfortunately I cannot help you with the boredom bit, best I have ever managed is about 75 minutes, my son has done 2.5 hours and more.

So getting back to the bolt bit, as your oblong shape wheel rotates on a fixed point, (turbo Roller which is a fixed distance from the axle) it changes pressure on the tyre and we all know even with a simple fan turbo this pressure makes a difference to how hard it is too pedal.

So to summise, if you have a choppy turbo, try replacing the fixed/bolt adjuster for a spring loaded one. even a couple of bungy straps will hold the roller against the tyre. Or buy a super round and straight rear wheel and tyre.

 

[AlanW]

Can`t afford an expensive unit but need to keep up the exercise when the weather is poor. Is this worth a try http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=18875&rt=0&rid=1455574&src=00062&

Pros and cons

Thanks

Even cheaper from there e-bay sales here

 

[AlanW]

So to summise, if you have a choppy turbo, try replacing the fixed/bolt adjuster for a spring loaded one. even a couple of bungy straps will hold the roller against the tyre. Or buy a super round and straight rear wheel and tyre.

Sorry, but I disagree, it is the effect of the angle of the multi bladed fan. I proved this on my first trainer when I replaced the one fan for a flywheel. The choppy sensation disapeared straight away, the larger/ heavier the flywheel the more realistic the effect will be to riding on the road.

It would also appear that others have the same opinion as me on this type of trainer - here

 

[AlanW]

This might help you

 

[screenman]

So what you are saying is that the pressure of the turbo roller against the tyre has no bearing of how much it takes to turn the wheel. An oblong wheel will change this pressure constantly. We tested many turbo's, with fans, without fans, fluid and magnetic. The one thing we found improved all of these was by making the roller keep the same constant pressure against the tyre. Now I assume you know how things like the Kingcycle are calibrated, this is done by moving the roller closer or further from the tyre, when you are using an oblong wheel that pressure is changing all the time. The majority of the flywheel effect comes not from the turbo but from the wheel, tyre, block etc. not the turbo. Even a cheap fan effect one can be made to work a lot smoother although not much quieter by making the changes I have stated.

I have not said any turbo was good or bad, just that there is a simple way to improve all most of them.

If anyone would like to explain why I am wrong and that an oblong wheel which I am sure a lot are would make no difference I am open to discussion.

 

[AlanW]

So what you are saying is that the pressure of the turbo roller against the tyre has no bearing of how much it takes to turn the wheel. An oblong wheel will change this pressure constantly. We tested many turbo's, with fans, without fans, fluid and magnetic. The one thing we found improved all of these was by making the roller keep the same constant pressure against the tyre. Now I assume you know how things like the Kingcycle are calibrated, this is done by moving the roller closer or further from the tyre, when you are using an oblong wheel that pressure is changing all the time. The majority of the flywheel effect comes not from the turbo but from the wheel, tyre, block etc. not the turbo. Even a cheap fan effect one can be made to work a lot smoother although not much quieter by making the changes I have stated.

I have not said any turbo was good or bad, just that there is a simple way to improve all most of them.

If anyone would like to explain why I am wrong and that an oblong wheel which I am sure a lot are would make no difference I am open to discussion.

Of course the pressure on the roller will have a bearing so to will a oblong wheel. My point is not this is not the main reason for the choppy sensation

But the weight of the bike does not sit entirely on the roller, it is either supported under the bottom bracket or via the rear wheel axle.

The only tension on the roller is the tension that you choose to apply, normally just enough to stop the roller from spinning under maximum effort.

So it does not matter if your are 20 stone or 10 stone, yours and the bike weight is fully supported, ok there will be minimal distortion in the turbo frame, but not that much. Unlike riding on the road when of course the resistance will be greater due to the increase of unsupported mass.

As for the majority of the flywheel effect coming from the wheel, sorry but I have disagree again. The larger/heavier the flywheel the better the flywheel effect, basic engineering practise really?

The flywheel is nothing more than an energy storage device, it also determines the amount of power available to launch you. A heavy flywheel stores more energy as it spins than a light flywheel.

Which is why the more expensive trainers have a heavier flywheel, harder to get going but more realistic once up to speed.

And yes I know how a Kingcycle is calibrated, and I do the same calibration test on my Tacx Flow, every time I use it.

 

[screenman]

Whilst I agree that you can adjust the pressure of the roller against the tyre, with an oblong wheel this pressure will vary at every point. In our testing we removed all fans etc. from the turbo and carried out adjustment tests and found major improvement when using a spring loaded system which allowed constant pressure.

I also agree with you on the flywheel weight effect, of course we have also to take into account centrifugal effect here, I also still feel on most turbo's the wheel, tyre, etc would weigh more than the flywheel.

I have never once mentioned weight of rider, but of course if you use a fixed/bolt style adjustment this could effect the pressure on the tyre each time you push down.

Whilst I do not disagree that a more expensive turbo may be a better piece of engineering my point still stands. The pressure of the tyre against the roller will effect the choppiness, by keeping this pressure constant it will help smooth things out.

Another way, set the wheel above the roller with a gap and you can spin it freely although you may have to turn the legs very quickly. Spin the turbo roller without anything on it and again it spins nice and freely. Put the two together and you have friction, the greater the friction the harder they are to turn, simple physics as you say. By having a variable involved, for example an off centre/oblong wheel we have varying friction, this we feel contributes greatly to the choppiness. Take away the variable friction and you have a smoother constant.

Please take note I do not have a degree in engineering, however one of the team involved in our testing did have, unfortunately we are not in contact any more so I cannot ask him to contribute.

 

[amaferanga]

I paid £70 for an as new Elite Elastogel trainer with an RRP of almost £300. Buy used, even at this time of year there are loads of bargains that are much better than that one from SJS.