integrated headset help

[02GF74]

I have an Atala tremila 3000 aluminium road frame with carbon rear stays that needs an integrated headset.

Meaurements:
41.3 mm (top) 41.6 (bottom) mm diameter in head tube

than then has an angle - not measured that. (looks like 45 degree)
depth 7 mm
steerer race 30.1 mm

so will this fit? <---- linky

Note the markings on the race - it seems to correspond well to my measurements although the 41.0 mm is smaller than the hole it is meant to go in.

So do you thihnk it will fit? Not been able to find out spec. of the headset for the bike. I suppose for £ 15 worth a punt?

And what is difference between semi-integrated and integrated?

 

[bonj2]

Semi-integrated is like fully integrated but the cups are removable.

My carbon bike has got a "fully integrated" headset which looks exactly like that one above. But if you look at the frame it has actually still got cups in it, which the bearings sit in - they don't sit directly against the carbon of the headtube, it's just that the cups are fixed in during the manufacturing process, the purpose of which possibly that they're neater.
I suspect that the bearings for the fully integrated headset of my carbon bike would fit perfectly well in the cups of the semi-integrated headset of my winter bike.
I am yet to see evidence of the existence of more than one different standard type of fully integrated headset - that's not to say there definitely isn't one, but I suspect that if there is they are made by individual manufacturers marked as specifically for their frames.
You could buy it, and check that it fits in with the cups completely clean and grease-free, that way you will be able to send it back if it doesn't fit.

 

[02GF74]

hmmm, not sure I follow all that - should have taken a photo.

my frame is just the tube, machined as described and no cups fitted. bacially at the ends of the head tube is the larger 41 mm hole, then there is a an angled step (the 45 degree bit) the leads on to a smaller inner hole.

Looking at headsets, there appear to be emntion of 36 and 45 degree angles. I am not sure if thatis the bearing race angle or the angle machined in the head tube for the races to sit in.

I guess have about £ 15 quid to lose.

and my next post will be how to fit them!!

 

[bonj2]

hmmm, not sure I follow all that - should have taken a photo.

my frame is just the tube, machined as described and no cups fitted. bacially at the ends of the head tube is the larger 41 mm hole, then there is a an angled step (the 45 degree bit) the leads on to a smaller inner hole.

Looking at headsets, there appear to be emntion of 36 and 45 degree angles. I am not sure if thatis the bearing race angle or the angle machined in the head tube for the races to sit in.

I guess have about £ 15 quid to lose.

and my next post will be how to fit them!!

you say there are no cups, but it *sounds* like (what serves as) the cup is actually PART OF the head tube, i.e. the headtube doesn't need separate cups and that will fit fine.
Just get it , you aren't even risking £15. send it back if it doesn't fit.

 

[Proto]

This is a cut and paste from a reply I made to a headset enquiry on Bike Radar. Some of it is relevent!

There are three standards for Integrated headsets - Cane Creek, Campagnolo and TH.
The first two are by far the most common.

assuming your steerer tube is 1-18" dia then the most obvious difference between them is the size of the bearings. CC use 41.0mm dia bearings, Campag use 41.8mm dia and TH use 41.5mm.

Second difference between them is the internal and external angles (chamfers, for want of a better word). CC use 36° int and 45° ext., Campag use 45° for both and TH use 36° for both.

None of these are interchangeable. So you need to replace the bearings for ones of the exact same type. If you don't know which you need, the easiest way is to take the bearings out of the frame and off the fork crown. They are a loose fit. The size and type is laser etched onto the outer race of the bearing. If for some reason it is illegible, then you'll have to measure them. When you know what size they are, you'll know what standard they are. Purchase as appropriate.

Note that you don't have to buy a new complete headset. You only need new bearings and they are freely available. Take a look here:

http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsP5544.aspx?A=3&TRACK=DPL

If in doubt, give Neil at Dotbike a call or email, and he will help you.

 

[Proto]

Integrated headsets don't have cups, the headtube is the cup. As you describe, a small angled shoulder approx 7mm from the top or bottow (I can't remember exactly) extremety of the headtube which the bearing sits on.

For Semi-Integrated frames, the headtube does not have the 'shoulder' mchined in, but instead has cups prsssed in to accept the bearings.

This is a Semi-Integrated (or 'Internal') headset. Silver parts are not bearings but cups.

http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsP1196.aspx?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=3&utm_campaign=DPL

 

[Proto]

Semi-integrated is like fully integrated but the cups are removable.

I am yet to see evidence of the existence of more than one different standard type of fully integrated headset - that's not to say there definitely isn't one, but I suspect that if there is they are made by individual manufacturers marked as specifically for their frames.

Not so. See my post above about headset standards. As a general rule, Italian bikes are Campag standard and Far East bikes are Cane Creek. My 2003 Fuji is TH.

 

[bonj2]

Integrated headsets don't have cups, the headtube is the cup. As you describe, a small angled shoulder approx 7mm from the top or bottow (I can't remember exactly) extremety of the headtube which the bearing sits on.

For Semi-Integrated frames, the headtube does not have the 'shoulder' mchined in, but instead has cups prsssed in to accept the bearings.

This is a Semi-Integrated (or 'Internal') headset. Silver parts are not bearings but cups.

http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsP1196.aspx?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=3&utm_campaign=DPL

mine does have cups but they are fixed into the frame and you can hardly tell they are distinct. i.e. they aren't part of the carbon, but they aren't separate either. If you want to say they ARE the headtube, that's fine - which makes sense from a mechanic's point of view - but in terms of the manufacturing process they were not made as part of the actual carbon monocoque itself.

 

[bonj2]

Not so. See my post above about headset standards. As a general rule, Italian bikes are Campag standard and Far East bikes are Cane Creek. My 2003 Fuji is TH.

ah ok so most are the same standard apart from the bloody italians who have to be contrary

 

[Proto]

mine does have cups but they are fixed into the frame and you can hardly tell they are distinct. i.e. they aren't part of the carbon, but they aren't separate either. If you want to say they ARE the headtube, that's fine - which makes sense from a mechanic's point of view - but in terms of the manufacturing process they were not made as part of the actual carbon monocoque itself.

The difference being that in semi-integrated headsets the cups are designed to be removeable. I suggest you don't remove the 'cups' in your frame or you will f*ck it up. .

 

[bonj2]

The difference being that in semi-integrated headsets the cups are designed to be removeable. I suggest you don't remove the 'cups' in your frame or you will f*ck it up. .

oh god no, i'm not going to!`