Hills versus Flat

[Hacienda71]

I cycle at the weekend on fairly flat routes for pleasure. During the week i try to commute one or two days to Macclesfield which involves a couple of climbs Alderley Edge being the hardest. Last weekend i went for 20 mile flat ride and found that it seemed easier after commuting a couple of times that week and my average speed was up. I mentioned it to a colleague who is a serious triathlon/iron man competitor. His view was that to improve my flat rides i should rely on flat training as in his experience if you are good on hills you will be slow on the flat and vice versa. He is trying to get me to do the Cat and Fiddle run from Macc with him and i am now getting a little paranoid i am going to get shown up badly.

Is there a happy medium to make you a good all round cyclist on flats and hills? I enjoy my weekend rides on the Cheshire Plain and live in a fairly flat area in Cheshire, but want to be able to climb where necessary.

 

[palinurus]

in his experience if you are good on hills you will be slow on the flat and vice versa.

Each year my club organize a trip to the alps.

Invariably anyone who attends the alps trip and rides the (flat) club TT within a couple of weeks of returning goes substantially quicker. Hill training is pretty good for building speed on the flat.

The build of a rider does affect speed on the flat and on hills however. I'm pretty light so I go uphill OK, a light rider may not have so much power but going uphill it's power to weight ratio that's important.

On the flat weight is less important. A more powerful rider can make better headway, and a larger, heavier, rider generally has the edge when it comes to power. There's little difference in aerodynamics between a natural climber and a larger rider (assuming both have a similar position on the bike).

 

[I am Spartacus]

if you are good on hills you will be slow on the flat and vice versa.

Far too simplistic an approach.

 

[ASC1951]

Spartacus is right. Look at the professionals - some of the specialist lightweight climbers (Pantani) weren't outstanding on the flat, but others (Indurain, Armstrong and Contador) are all top climbers and brilliant TTers.

 

[Hacienda71]

So I guess it is best to do both flat and hills to become a good allround rider. I think my mate was implying track specialists like Chris Hoy would make poor climbers due to their muscular bulk they had built up for TT and track work. I know a lot people accused Chris Boardman of this when he turned pro after his olympic triumph. Anyway i am rambling hypothetically as me doing a 7 mile climb is never going to be a particularly competitive event and i think i probably just need to get used to some longer climbs than going up Alderley Edge which is only a mile or so.

 

[I am Spartacus]

To elaborate more on my brief remark...
concentrate on developing power (the Holy Grail) .. that same power you can sustain for longer periods on the flat or rolling terrain, will stand you in good stead on the hill.

 

[ASC1951]

concentrate on developing power ..... that same power you can sustain for longer periods on the flat or rolling terrain, will stand you in good stead on the hill.

Get a fixed as a second bike. You can usually put one together quite cheaply as a winter mount and on the rolling terrain round here I find it excellent for building up power.

 

[Hacienda71]

Get a fixed as a second bike. You can usually put one together quite cheaply as a winter mount and on the rolling terrain round here I find it excellent for building up power.

I may do that. Due to my location i could start with some fairly easy hills to build up my power.

 

[jimboalee]

Get a fixed as a second bike. You can usually put one together quite cheaply as a winter mount and on the rolling terrain round here I find it excellent for building up power.

That's like telling a weightlifter to train with no discs on the bar.

Get a cheapo old heavyweight heap of iron with an overgeared Sturmey rear end.
Then go and give your legs some strain.

 

[fossyant]

Your training needs to be mixed mate, hills and flat - I find flat boring. Your not far from me, some fantastic lanes round Alderley, and not flat. Swiss Hill....do it..... but not in the wet.... it's fun this time of year.... !

The Wizard is a tough climb - do that loads, add in Birtles Hill, Artist's Lane and maybe Swiss hill for 'skills training', then there's the lanes near Mottram St Andrew...... you could rack up some serious climbs in a 25 mile route round there.

Do that lot, you'll be as fit as a butcher's dog....

 

[jimboalee]

Your training needs to be mixed mate, hills and flat - I find flat boring. Your not far from me, some fantastic lanes round Alderley, and not flat. Swiss Hill....do it..... but not in the wet.... it's fun this time of year.... !

The Wizard is a tough climb - do that loads, add in Birtles Hill, Artist's Lane and maybe Swiss hill for 'skills training', then there's the lanes near Mottram St Andrew...... you could rack up some serious climbs in a 25 mile route round there.

Do that lot, you'll be as fit as a butcher's dog....

I took a few days off to watch the Commonwealth Games road race when it was in Manchester.
I stayed ( with bike in car ) at a hotel called Moorside Grange, half way up the hill west of Whaley Bridge.

An area MOST recommended for hill training from the Stockport area.

The day after riding into Manchester, I decided to tour the locale ????

I've rechecked the map and I was immediately confronted with Start Lane.
Then eastbound to Chapel-en-le-Frith... Then further to Castleton ( the turn point of the Castleton Classic ).
Then return to Hotel.

I was riding my Pug with 38 x 23 lowest.

 

[jimboalee]

I took a few days off to watch the Commonwealth Games road race when it was in Manchester.
I stayed ( with bike in car ) at a hotel called Moorside Grange, half way up the hill west of Whaley Bridge.

An area MOST recommended for hill training from the Stockport area.

The day after riding into Manchester, I decided to tour the locale ????

I've rechecked the map and I was immediately confronted with Start Lane.
Then eastbound to Chapel-en-le-Frith... Then further to Castleton ( the turn point of the Castleton Classic ).
Then return to Hotel.

I was riding my Pug with 38 x 23 lowest.

This is the route as far as I can recall.

www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php?id=23373

4 1/2 hours.

 

[Hacienda71]

This is the route as far as I can recall.

www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php?id=23373

4 1/2 hours.

I now this route quite well from going to uni in Sheffield. I have cycled from Sheffield to Wilmslow once but that was 16 years ago and my fitness level is well down from then and although riding longer distances now they tend to be on the flat so i will have to build up to it.

 

[Hacienda71]

Your training needs to be mixed mate, hills and flat - I find flat boring. Your not far from me, some fantastic lanes round Alderley, and not flat. Swiss Hill....do it..... but not in the wet.... it's fun this time of year.... !

The Wizard is a tough climb - do that loads, add in Birtles Hill, Artist's Lane and maybe Swiss hill for 'skills training', then there's the lanes near Mottram St Andrew...... you could rack up some serious climbs in a 25 mile route round there.

Do that lot, you'll be as fit as a butcher's dog....

I will certainly incorporate more into my training i know the roads you mention pretty well. To be honest i have probably been a bit lazy and avoided them on my training rides rather than commute to Macc when i have to go up the wizard or take a much longer flatter route.
I went up Swiss Hill as a teenager on a fixed wheel but with what was known as a wheely cog on the front. No more than 30 teeth or so totally impractrical on the flat good on hills but a fashion statement at the time lol