Help with Fat burning

[Zofo]

Hi folks,

I'm 49 years old , male weighing 11st 12 lbs and currently 20.5% fat. I'm trying to get down to a realistic 11st 2lb and 18% fat. I've tried various regimes and managed to get to my current weight by a combination of 1 long ride per wk , one interval session and one maintenace session of 90 mins and only using Zero Cal drinks on my rides. I also use a SIS recovery drink afterwards.
I ride at a steady pace of around 85 % of my AT-to give a heart rate betwenn 148-153 bpm. However as the length of my long ride has increased up to 3-4 hrs -in training for some sportives- I've been feeling exhausted for the next 24 hrs or so. To try and counter this a couple of months ago I started using High 5 carb drinks --about 500ml per hr -and a gel to see if I feel any better, as all the literature I've read seems to advocate 75 grammes of carbs per hr. The end result is a do feel less exhausted after a long ride BUT am now piling back on the pounds--I've gained 3lbs and 0.5% body fat in 3 weeks! My diet is very good , lots of fruit, veg, water tuna etc and hasnt changed at all.
Can anyone give me a pointer on where I'm going wrong please?

 

[ColinJ]

You are not 'piling on the pounds' - 3 or 4 pounds a week is piling on! 3 pounds is not a huge difference and could be the difference between being dehydrated at the first weighing and not on the second. Is your waist measurement significantly bigger?

If you really are gaining weight and it is fat rather than muscle, then you are simply taking in slightly too many calories. Since you say that your diet is good and unchanged then you don't need all of that energy drink and gels the gels. Cut back and see how you get on.

I've seen a figure of 60 g of carbs an hour so it sounds like you are probably taking in too much. In fact if you are gaining weight you are definitely taking in too much! 1 pound a week of gain is equivalent to about 500 extra cals a day so you need to cut that much out of your intake to stay the same weight or a bit more to continue losing weight.

Alternatively, get an extra 7 hours of cycling in a week without extra fuel. Or walk more. Use the stairs rather than a lift or escalators. Get off buses or trains one stop earlier. Walk to the shops rather than driving. Park further from work? It wouldn't be difficult to burn an extra 500 calories a day.

Training is about proper recovery from significant exercise. Why does it surprise you that a 4 hour effort leaves you tired next day? If it left you exhausted for 2 or 3 days then there might be a problem. Accept the fatigue and take an easy rest day to recover.

How tall and what build are you are you? (I'm wondering how you decided what your target weight is.)

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

Wise words from Hebden Bridge!

I second the 60g of carbs per hour figure: this is what I understand is the maximum the body can metabolise in an hour, not necessarily its requirement. Remember too that your glycogen stores should see you through the first hour or so. Personally, I can ride for four hours on a banana and dilute squash with salt.

Have a look at Brian Mac's website, specifically this page on fat burning: there is a wealth of information here, all backed-up with source references and many useful tools such as a daily energy requirement calculator.

How are you measuring your body composition? The results from calipers are highly dependent on the skill of the person using them and scales, such as Tanita, do not provide results considered accurate: their results can have a margin of error of +/- 10%! Unless your results are from a DEXA scan, Bod Pod or hydrostatic weighing I would treat them as a curiosity, no more.

 

[VamP]

What you are asking is a bit more complicated than can be answered easily in here, have you done any reading on racing weight issues? I can recommend the excellent Matt Fitzgerald book in this regard, which takes a hollistic approach and covers pretty much all the angles, including helping you set an appropriate target weight.

Your despcription tells me not that you're piling on the weight, but that your weight has plateaued. There may be many reasons for this, so you need to look at more than just your fuelling during the rides.

3 lbs and 0.5% body fat are easily daily swings for me, so make sure that you are consistent with your measuring as well. Same time, preferably morning after voiding.

BTW, by my calculations if you lose 10 pounds your body fat will be more like 15%. That's quite a transformation, and may not even be possible for you. Again, do some reading on racing weights and setting your personal target. Just because TdF riders are below 10% body fat does not mean everyone can get that low.

 

[Dave Martin]

In my experience simple sugary carbs are not the answer and will only encourage your body to store fat . You would benefit from getting your energy from more slow release carbs such as sweet potato , green veg , wholegrain pasta or rice and couscus which is excellent . Take proteins from fish ,chicken etc and supplement this with a protein drink after rides . Leave the fruit alone until after a ride when it becomes a brilliant source of quick carb energy and drink plenty of fresh water throughout the day though. The more muscle mass you have will also increase your bodys ability to burn fat which is why I also weight train 3 times a week. You may not find that your weight reduces quite as much but your body fat will drop dramatically and you'll have loads of energy.

 

[Dave Martin]

Forgot to say simple carbs are anything made up from one or two sugars and while these will give you an energy boost they will also spike your insulin levels . Slow release carbs which give you substained energy have 3 or more sugars and are harder for the body to convert which is why they are slow release carbs.A list of these two types of food can be found on the internet if you do a search . It is also important to give your body time to convert and then use carbs before intaking any more so try and cut your meal size down by half but eat more regularly say every 2 to 3 hours as any carbs left in your body at the end of the day will store as fat for energy back up next time it's needed . Another mistake some people make is also not eating enough when trying to loose weight reduces, this causes your body to go into starvation mode and again it will store fat for when it is needed as a backup energy source

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I second the 60g of carbs per hour figure: this is what I understand is the maximum the body can metabolise in an hour, not necessarily its requirement. Remember too that your glycogen stores should see you through the first hour or so. Personally, I can ride for four hours on a banana and dilute squash with salt.

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/energy-gels.95082/

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/energy-gels.95082/

Thanks, I'd not read the end of that thread so that is news to me: every day's a school day!

 

[Zofo]

You are not 'piling on the pounds' - 3 or 4 pounds a week is piling on! 3 pounds is not a huge difference and could be the difference between being dehydrated at the first weighing and not on the second. Is your waist measurement significantly bigger?

If you really are gaining weight and it is fat rather than muscle, then you are simply taking in slightly too many calories. Since you say that your diet is good and unchanged then you don't need all of that energy drink and gels the gels. Cut back and see how you get on.

I've seen a figure of 60 g of carbs an hour so it sounds like you are probably taking in too much. In fact if you are gaining weight you are definitely taking in too much! 1 pound a week of gain is equivalent to about 500 extra cals a day so you need to cut that much out of your intake to stay the same weight or a bit more to continue losing weight.

Alternatively, get an extra 7 hours of cycling in a week without extra fuel. Or walk more. Use the stairs rather than a lift or escalators. Get off buses or trains one stop earlier. Walk to the shops rather than driving. Park further from work? It wouldn't be difficult to burn an extra 500 calories a day.

Training is about proper recovery from significant exercise. Why does it surprise you that a 4 hour effort leaves you tired next day? If it left you exhausted for 2 or 3 days then there might be a problem. Accept the fatigue and take an easy rest day to recover.

How tall and what build are you are you? (I'm wondering how you decided what your target weight is.)

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the reply, I'm 5ft 11in and a medium build and decided I should be around 18% fat based on charts in a couple of my training books. I take your point about expecting to be tired for 24 hrs after a good 4 hr ride, I guess its maybe a price you have to pay for -hopefully-increased fitness in the long run. I had initially been following some advice about training when glycogen deficient-ie train lo and race high-but maybe I've gone too far the other way now!

 

[Zofo]

Wise words from Hebden Bridge!

I second the 60g of carbs per hour figure: this is what I understand is the maximum the body can metabolise in an hour, not necessarily its requirement. Remember too that your glycogen stores should see you through the first hour or so. Personally, I can ride for four hours on a banana and dilute squash with salt.

Have a look at Brian Mac's website, specifically this page on fat burning: there is a wealth of information here, all backed-up with source references and many useful tools such as a daily energy requirement calculator.

How are you measuring your body composition? The results from calipers are highly dependent on the skill of the person using them and scales, such as Tanita, do not provide results considered accurate: their results can have a margin of error of +/- 10%! Unless your results are from a DEXA scan, Bod Pod or hydrostatic weighing I would treat them as a curiosity, no more.

Hi Jimmy,

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.I was interested to hear that you ride for 4 hrs on just a banana and squash as I'm coming to the conclusion that maybe theres a myth about the dreaded 'bonk' being perpetrated by the sports drink manufactures and that in fact we can can go much more than the suggested 90 mins before needing to load up with carbs?

 

[ColinJ]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the reply, I'm 5ft 11in and a medium build and decided I should be around 18% fat based on charts in a couple of my training books.

11 st 2 lbs sounds like a reasonable target weight for you. I'm 6' 1" and a medium build and I look too skinny below 12 stone. (I could get away with it when I was younger but I'd just look old and haggard now so I'm aiming for 12-0 -12-7.)

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.I was interested to hear that you ride for 4 hrs on just a banana and squash as I'm coming to the conclusion that maybe theres a myth about the dreaded 'bonk' being perpetrated by the sports drink manufactures and that in fact we can can go much more than the suggested 90 mins before needing to load up with carbs?

I just drink OJ and water up to 2 hours or so. Beyond that I make up DIY energy drinks using maltodextrin powder etc. For 4 hours of fairly hard riding, I would probably drink a couple of 800 mL bottles of that, each containing about 60-80 g of carbs. I drink a bit less when fit, a bit more when unfit and the weather is hot. Beyond 4 hours, I'd drink more pro rata, and I'd probably eat something too.

 

[screenman]

Where did you get your target zones from? 85% for a 4 hour ride is sure going to fatigue you, why not drop it down a bit. Have a look at the Mathetone method.

 

[TheSandwichMonster]

Just on a slight tangent to the thread, but on the subject of fuelling:

I recently spent a day over at Torq as part of a project I'm working on. As well as being fit-tested, they also discussed the whole arena of training theory, nutrition, etc. The figure I was quoted was not 60g carbohydrate per hour, but 1g per kg of bodyweight. Therefore someone like me (at ~90kg) would need 90g CHO/hour where a lighter person could get away with less.

As mentioned in the Energy Gels thread, it is possible to get close to that number using the 2:1 fuelling method (losing some more weight would also help me out!!). What is often not discussed, is that any supplemental fat intake reduces your body's ability to uptake carbs. It's what always makes me smile when you see people on sportives wolfing down fat-laden snacks and then shoving a gel into themselves.

However, those figures assume either long endurance riding, or competition. As Colin has already said, for shorter/less intense rides there isn't any requirement to be fuelling to that extent.