Help! Paint job guru needed!

[BrazingSaddles]

Last summer I built my beautiful commuter road frame (Luscious G) on a Dave Yates frame building course. However, since it was painted (stove enamel) last October the paint has done nothing but chip - I must stress here that I had it painted locally, not by DY - and having seen some new additions tonight after my commute I am at a loss (and almost tearful!) so would really appreciate some advice please.
I have spoken to the company about it as I recently picked up a touch-up pot from them and they simply say it's just bad luck with how the stones/chips fly up and hit the frame. But really? Really?
Could it be that perhaps the paint wasn't 'fixed' properly? Heated too little/too much?
Grasping at straws.....!!!

 

[flying start]

Sounds to me that they haven't baked the paint on just air dried

 

[BrazingSaddles]

Hmmm...tis what I is thinking....!

 

[screenman]

Pictures?

 

[brockers]

Sounds like a pretty lame excuse to me. Next time you speak to them, maybe slip in, in a roundabout way, that you might just mention their name on a bunch of internet forums

 

[Recycler]

True stove enamelling is different from painting but TBH a modern paint should be able to withstand the occasional stone chip....particularly at the speeds we go at on bikes.
It is more likely that, if the paint isn't staying on very well, that it is down to poor preparation of the frame before it was painted. In any event though, you need to concentrate on the fact that it is not doing it's job.

Whatever the cause, the company needs to sort it out but if you go in blaming them for using the wrong heat when something else has caused the problem then you won't be able to make a strong case.

Some pictures might help though it is difficult to photograph relatively small paint chips clearly.

 

[BrazingSaddles]

Yes - will sort pictures this weekend & will post ASAP. I will also see about getting this thread put into the 'Know How' section...I'm still new to this site and all the various sections!
Thank you to all who have replied so far.

 

[Poacher]

Should have got Dave Yates to do it!
Sorry, you really do have my sympathy, and I wish you luck with this problem.

 

[BrazingSaddles]

Okay. A friend who knows his stuff(!) popped around today as has reassured me that I am not over-reacting with the chips that have occurred. Thoughts are leading to insufficient preparation of the frame prior to painting... DY shot blast it but as it was over a month before the frame went in to be sprayed we wonder if it should have been shot blast again and wasn't. The carbon forks however still look great and these they would have had to prepare/prime. This must be it! Will take Luscious G back and have a chat with them about what they can do for me.
Chain stay image shows how poor the touch-up is. I can't live with lots of odd little patches of colour dotted all over her!!!
These are just a few of the chips. They appear in odd places - one rear-rack braze-on is really badly chipped.
Here is Luscious in full - mmmmm! (Don't look too closely though as she needs a wash!)

 

[BrazingSaddles]

Should have got Dave Yates to do it!
Sorry, you really do have my sympathy, and I wish you luck with this problem.

Yeah - unfortunately logistics & timing were not favourable, and I needed to finish a little flourish on the seat post which I had to do at home (I'm South West - DY is in Lincolnshire).
But I will contact him about it for his expert opinion.
Cheers.

 

[BrazingSaddles]

True stove enamelling is different from painting but TBH a modern paint should be able to withstand the occasional stone chip....particularly at the speeds we go at on bikes.
It is more likely that, if the paint isn't staying on very well, that it is down to poor preparation of the frame before it was painted. In any event though, you need to concentrate on the fact that it is not doing it's job.

Whatever the cause, the company needs to sort it out but if you go in blaming them for using the wrong heat when something else has caused the problem then you won't be able to make a strong case.

Some pictures might help though it is difficult to photograph relatively small paint chips clearly.

Pictures done!

 

[fossyant]

Shouldn't be rusting like that so quick when it chips. I think the base wasn't done properly.

 

[Recycler]

I assume that your frame is steel and that it was painted rather than "real" stove enamelled.

Shotblasting removes the old finish, removes any rust and also prepares the metal for the primer. It's normal practice when shotblasting steel to blast and then immediately prime the surface. Steel rusts very quickly, it takes time for it to go the familiar brown, but the surface is rusting straight away and adhesion of paint relies on the primer going on straight away. If it was painted a month after shotblasting then that was too long by 29days, 23hours and 59 minutes!!

Once primed then the topcoat needs to go on pretty soon but it is not so critical.

It's difficult to tell from the pictures but it looks as if the chips have removed both the blue topcoat and the white/grey primer. This would indicate that the whole lot is coming away from the frame rather than just the topcoat coming away from the primer. If all the chips are like that then it is almost certainly down to poor preparation (you wouldn't expect all stone chips to remove every coat of paint; some would just cause "dings")

If your carbon forks are still fine then that also points to a problem with the paint on the frame. You would expect the forks to be chipped by flying stones.....they are the first point of impact!!

If you can find out what paint was used (does it say on the tin of touch up?) then you way well be able to find the manufacturers data sheet on the web. It would give you something to go armed with when you go to see them.

If the frame is aluminium (but it doesn't look like it in the pictures) then the above comments only partially apply.

Negotiating a respray may not be easy but take your mate with you and, if you do get it, get them to paint those bottle cages at the same time.

 

[BrazingSaddles]

I assume that your frame is steel and that it was painted rather than "real" stove enamelled.

Shotblasting removes the old finish, removes any rust and also prepares the metal for the primer. It's normal practice when shotblasting steel to blast and then immediately prime the surface. Steel rusts very quickly, it takes time for it to go the familiar brown, but the surface is rusting straight away and adhesion of paint relies on the primer going on straight away. If it was painted a month after shotblasting then that was too long by 29days, 23hours and 59 minutes!!

Once primed then the topcoat needs to go on pretty soon but it is not so critical.

It's difficult to tell from the pictures but it looks as if the chips have removed both the blue topcoat and the white/grey primer. This would indicate that the whole lot is coming away from the frame rather than just the topcoat coming away from the primer. If all the chips are like that then it is almost certainly down to poor preparation (you wouldn't expect all stone chips to remove every coat of paint; some would just cause "dings")

If your carbon forks are still fine then that also points to a problem with the paint on the frame. You would expect the forks to be chipped by flying stones.....they are the first point of impact!!

If you can find out what paint was used (does it say on the tin of touch up?) then you way well be able to find the manufacturers data sheet on the web. It would give you something to go armed with when you go to see them.

If the frame is aluminium (but it doesn't look like it in the pictures) then the above comments only partially apply.

Negotiating a respray may not be easy but take your mate with you and, if you do get it, get them to paint those bottle cages at the same time.

Errr....thanks for all the info above, bar the last section - heaven forbid I'd want something other than black! BORING!!!
The company is very reputable so I have faith that there should not be too much of an issue. The real issue will be deciding whether to use my light-weight road bike or my heavy tourer whilst Luscious is out of action - the former won't take panniers, the latter will add a fair bit on to my commute. Or maybe just coincide it with a tour of Sweden/Denmark that's planned in July.....hmmmm.....
Cheers.

 

[BrazingSaddles]

Full re-spray will happening in July
Whilst they did not confirm any of my doubts/queries, they could see that the chipping was rather excessive and they admitted to using a different primer now.
I will be taking her in when I go off on tour using Shirley the Surley!