Help needed please, ID no. 2358

[Bobby Maclean]

can any wise sages help my identify this respray. It’s light and the bits on it are interesting.

 

[biggs682]

Lugs are fantastic
I have seen frame numbers from both Pennine and Shorter stamped in same location from memory the Pennine was a 5 digit and the Shorter is a 4 digit
so what are your plans ?

 

[Sharky]

Are they round to round front forks? Reminds me a bit of my old Mercian trackie.

 

[Bobby Maclean]

Just bought it this morning for a commute bike for my son. Just been doing some research on the parts on it and its all looking interesting.

 

[Bobby Maclean]

Not to sure what round to round forks are Sharky, here are a few angles.

 

[Sharky]

Round/round are forks which are round at the top and round at the fork end, as opposed to oval at the top, tapering down to round at the fork end.
Were traditional I think for track frames and makes them very stiff.

 

[Bobby Maclean]

They look a lot rounder than oval, both ends.

 

[MichaelW2]

The top caps of the seat stays look a bit Bob Jackson ish but not the lugwork

 

[oldtel]

Hi,
Nice 'commute' bike, it looks like a 1958 Condor Superbe, very desirable in my eyes, built by Bill Hurlow, great find very envious.
Thanks Terry

 

[Spiderweb]

https://www.condorcycles.com/pages/condor-vintage-frames-and-bicycles

 

[Andy in Germany]

Lugs are fantastic
I have seen frame numbers from both Pennine and Shorter stamped in same location from memory the Pennine was a 5 digit and the Shorter is a 4 digit
so what are your plans ?

That's logical, if you think about it.

 

[Bobby Maclean]

Hi,
Nice 'commute' bike, it looks like a 1958 Condor Superbe, very desirable in my eyes, built by Bill Hurlow, great find very envious.
Thanks Terry

. Thank you oldtel, this does change things regarding letting my son use it as a commute bike. Would this ever of had dereillers or rather can they be fitted?

 

[nonowt]

I'm fairly sure I've seen track ends with a mech hanger like this fitted:

as well as this kind of set up:

 

[oldtel]

Hi,
it looks like a classic time trail setup, the gap between the dropouts will tell a lot, if it is 110mm it has been used as a single speed, but if its 115mm it would of had a few gears.
Thanks
Terry

 

[Bobby Maclean]

Blimey!
Quoted from the internet...
London-born Bill Hurlow was one of the world’s best-renowned and respected builders of lightweight racing bicycle frames, not just for racers but for bicycle fanatics, weekend riders and collectors across the globe who still treasure his creations. Described by many of his peers as “the Picasso of bicycle builders”, not just for his artistry but for the speed with which he plied his craft, Hurlow worked for most of Britain’s leading bike manufacturers after the second world war, when Britain was at the vanguard of bicycle making and set the standard for the rest of the world. He went on to design and build his own frames – usually marked W.B. Hurlow or simply WBH – now often worth thousands of pounds to collectors. Even without seeing the name or initials, true bicycle connoisseurs can recognize a Hurlow at first glance, often by his fleur-de-lys, Superbe, or other unique “curly-cut” lugs – the joints which align and balance the tubes of the frame. Rare examples of his hand-cut lugs or headtubes alone, described by leading US collector Kevin Kruger as “the Holy Grail”, can fetch hundreds of pounds. Before putting together his own bespoke models, Hurlow built bikes for the leading companies of his day – from FH Grubb, Holdsworth, Claud Butler, Paris Cycles (London-based despite the name) and Mal Rees to the still cutting-edge Condor Cycles, which owes much of its reputation to Hurlow’s designs. Among the customers for his bespoke models were rock star bike enthusiasts Mick Jagger and Eric Clapton, as well as actor Peter Sellers, who insisted his model be finished in Ferrari red to match his car. Hurlow also built training bikes for his friend the English road racer Tom Simpson, who would die of exhaustion during the 1967 Tour de France after apparently taking drugs. Hurlow was an amateur racer himself, winning numerous time trial awards for two of the great cycling clubs of his day, Galena and Marlboro, including in the great Bath Road 100 (mile) time trial, in which he won the Lascelles Cup three times – in 1949, 1951 and 1952. He was still racing into his seventies, often beating competitors 30 years younger, and still covered 30-40 miles a day for pleasure into his mid-80s. A photograph taken when he was in his seventies shows a lone, white-haired figure gobbling up a deserted Bandy Canyon Road in California’s San Pasqual Valley. Hurlow’s designs influenced bicycle makers worldwide, particularly in the US, where frame builders took up his mantle and one described him as “the builder’s builder, a tailor of tubes” for his ability to design and build a bike to individual measurements and needs – height, weight, build, and even, like a tailor, the vital inner leg measurement – to angle and balance the frame to suit the customer. “His bikes were the equivalent of Savile Row suits,” said his friend and fellow biker John Hunt of Canterbury, Kent. “It was Bill who invented the breakthrough fastback seat stays, brazed into an Allen key housing. Most lugs are biased but Bill’s were totally symmetrical. He couldn’t draw them. He cut them like a sculptor. I think he knocks all other builders into a cocked hat.” For many years, the Hurlow workshop in the mews of the White Horse pub in Herne Bay, Kent, was a mecca for would-be frame-builders, collectors or simply fans of his work from all over the world. One such visitor, American builder A.D. “Art” Stump, who came to Britain to have Hurlow build a bike for him, said of his work: “I liken a well-designed lug frame to a good, engraved English shotgun. It doesn’t shoot any better than a plain shotgun, but it is pretty and shows the builder’s care in making it.” Such was Hurlow’s reputation in the US that, after word of his death spread, bikers across the country hit the saddle for memorial rides in his honour. Dale Brown, now a leading US bicycle dealer based in Greensboro, North Carolina, recalls making the pilgrimage to see Hurlow in Herne Bay in the 1970s. Mr Brown had hoped to order a “a fancy lugged model” but Hurlow explained that his chromework might be too expensive since it had to be polished by his local dentist. William Bertram Hurlow was born in London on May 27, 1921, and educated at the Cardinal Vaughan Memorial School in Holland Park, in the west of the city. Despite shining in classics he left school at 14 because he had become fascinated by bicycles. He joined FH Grubb Cycles in Wimbledon, London, as an apprentice, making the tea, sweeping up and running errands but watching and learning from the frame builders. Still a teenager, he would then work for two other major bike makers, Claud Butler and Holdsworth. After the outbreak of the second world war he joined the Royal Engineers as an armourer artificer – a “tiffie”, as they were nicknamed – his skills making him more valuable at home in assembling Sten guns and other weapons than in the field. He married Joan Ethel Blacksley, of Fulham, west London, in 1942. After the war, Hurlow worked briefly for Stoke Newington’s Paris Cycles, whose successful road racing team had brought a high demand for their frames. Wartime petrol rationing, which ended only in 1950, had also raised demand for bicycles, although lack of metal had slowed production and many potential buyers of quality bicycles opted instead for motorbikes, often with fashionable sidecars. In the 1950s, Hurlow designed and built bikes for the Mal Rees company – models still coveted by classic collectors – before running the Condor Cycles workshop at 211, Balls Pond Road, north London. Bill Hurlow died in hospital in Canterbury on February 28 after suffering from advanced dementia. His wife Joan died in 1982. He is survived by a son, Colin, and family in California