Guilty secret

[BalkanExpress]

Inspired by a couple of posts on the Armstrong thread about cyclists who have tested positive but whom posters still like or admire as cyclist, I thought I'd pose the question: which cyclist do you like even though he or indeed she is a doping cheat?

For the record I'm going for Vino, he should be the unacceptable face of cycling after having shown no remorse (as far as I recall) over his ban and then topping of his career by grabbing Olympic gold. And yet... at least he said "so what" rather than giving some mealy mouthed excuse and he was mad as fish on his bike and no-one, neither rivals nor team mates had any idea what he'd do next.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

None - Sportsmen need to realise that they are an example to young people who look up to them and that places them in an area of responsibility. I also think they need to appreciate that they are tearing the sport apart. I want to admire a sportman for his commitment and dedication, how can you do that to a known liar

 

[DogTired]

Like V I was going to say none but then thought David Millar. Because he screwed up but has the cahonies to speak candidly about his experiences. Unlike Contador, LA et al he's open (post being caught) about the whole situation regarding doping in cycling. The subtext regarding doping in professional cycling is eye-opening, tawdry, highly organised and would decimate the 'sport' if widely regarded by the public and sponsors.

 

[johnr]

Like V I was going to say none but then thought David Millar. Because he screwed up but has the cahonies to speak candidly about his experiences. Unlike Contador, LA et al he's open (post being caught) about the whole situation regarding doping in cycling. The subtext regarding doping in professional cycling is eye-opening, tawdry, highly organised and would decimate the 'sport' if widely regarded by the public and sponsors.

+1

 

[raindog]

I've always liked watching Vino ride too, and never hidden it. Two more are Jan Ullrich and Johan Museeuw. Don't see it's anything to worry about.
Then again I was never into the hysteria and hero worship that seemed to surround Pantani and Virenque, and still does to a degree, and they were on the juice in a big way.
It must also be possible to admire someone thinking they were clean, when in fact, they simply never got caught.

 

[Boris Bajic]

I've always liked watching Vino ride too, and never hidden it. Two more are Jan Ullrich and Johan Museeuw. Don't see it's anything to worry about.
Then again I was never into the hysteria and hero worship that seemed to surround Pantani and Virenque, and still does to a degree, and they were on the juice in a big way.
It must also be possible to admire someone thinking they were clean, when in fact, they simply never got caught.

Ullrich and Museeuw. Absolutely. Pantani too, in spades.

Not Virenque. I don't know why. Something in his eyes reminds me of the ex of an old friend. He's a wrong'un (Virenque, not the old friend).

I quite admired Landis in the day and have a grudging admiration for D Millar. In truth, I liked most of the old dopers.

Vino was and is a quality article.

 

[beastie]

Ullrich and Museeuw. Absolutely. Pantani too, in spades.

Not Virenque. I don't know why. Something in his eyes reminds me of the ex of an old friend. He's a wrong'un (Virenque, not the old friend).

I quite admired Landis in the day and have a grudging admiration for D Millar. In truth, I liked most of the old dopers.

Vino was and is a quality article.

When I saw this thread I said to myself " Boris will be along in a minute, with a page long diatribe"

Only a couple of paragraphs ? A disappointment.
I always quite liked Der Jan. Coz he showed how a fat lad could bike.

 

[oldroadman]

When you get beaten by people you know are on the stuff, it's a bit galling. The temptation is incredible, when someone (no names) can simply ride you off their wheel when you KNOW that it's not normally possible, you start to think "what if I?" about using "preparation". Which is how it can happen for a new rider. Until you find your level and just get on with the job, content with the probability that you will rarely if ever get a win, and if one does happen it will be in some little kermesse, amongst elites-zonder-contract, not any race of note. You made a choice, and lived with it. I honestly think that the sport is massively cleaner now, otherwise Wiggins would not have the TdF win to his credit.
For a simple measure, look at Alpe d'Huez climb times, years ago 39 minutes was being achieved by the top climbers, who could then hold a conversation almost immediately, now it's at least 41 and they finish in bits. Now, how do you think that's happened, in an era of scientific training and better equipment?

 

[PaulB]

I don't mind many of them. Mostly, it's not their fault they got in to it in the first place but they were 'compelled' to dope, sometimes by increments and sometimes by deceit. Once established, the truth was revealed to them and few of them were prepared to relinquish what they had attained. Once they understood how to cheat the system, they understood they wouldn't 'fail a drugs test' as much as they'd be failing an I.Q test for getting caught when they shouldn't. I feel this way mainly after having read Paul Kimmage's 'Rough Ride'. What a sanctimonious pillock he is!

Having said that, Kimmage apart, I reserve my admiration for those who refuse to dope whether that's through cowardice or through courage or through moral conviction. They are all more worthy, regardless of their finishing position, than the ones who had the pharmaceutical advantage.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

It's not just the drug-taking, it's the self-righteousness and lying that I find hard to take. As a result I will never be able to admire Armstrong or Virenque and those who have a complete disregard for the fact that they cheated. More complex and tragic figures like Pantani, I can't help liking. And of course, I think significant respect is due to those who have turned themselves around and try to work for a cleaner sport like Vaughters and Millar.

 

[black'n'yellow]

Vino and Millar - but not necessarily for the same reasons.....

 

[Dayvo]

Pantani and Ullrich: things happened when they took to the front, especially Pantani, when he danced on the pedals and flew off into the distance.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Pantani and Ullrich: things happened when they took to the front, especially Pantani, when he danced on the pedals and flew off into the distance.

Pantani was the last cyclist I really wanted to believe in 100%. Now I am only ever 'pretty sure'...

 

[Monsieur Remings]

Pantani was one of the last of the eccentrics, he was difficult not to like. He'd never have tried to justify anything, or become sanctimonious, let alone build his name and status up on a lie. Deeply troubled? Oh yes.

Where have all the eccentrics gone?

 

[Boris Bajic]

Pantani and Ullrich: things happened when they took to the front, especially Pantani, when he danced on the pedals and flew off into the distance.

I remember hearing a radio commentary the year he won the TdF.

It was a climb and the voice said "Pantani leaves the others like a cork leaving a bottle of Champagne".

I think it was in French, but might have been English.

It formed the basis of my childrens' bedtime story the next night.

It was great to see pantani whip his way up and down a mountain, but still pretty good on the radio.