Gluing tubular tyres

[earth]

I'm trying out tubulars. Gluing them onto the rim is something that is going to take practise. Just hope I live long enough to master it. I followed this guide:

http://cnl.salk.edu/~jorge/xfer/TubularTiresAdhesivesandPracticePart1-4.pdf


To summarise:

1. Stretch tyres onto rim and inflate to 100+ psi (140 psi in my case) for 24 hours.

2. Thin layer of mastik one on the tyre backing tape also left for 24 hours.

3. Thin layer of mastik one on the rim, leave to dry 24 hours.

4. A second thin layer of mastik one on the rim, leave for 24 hours.

5. A third thin layer of mastik one one the rim, wait until tacky and mount the tyre.

5. When mounted and straight, firmly press down on the tyre while rolling to push tyre into rim.

6. Inflate to maximum and leave to dry for at least 24 hours.


I found applying the glue quite difficult. It gets tacky very quickly and to avoid it turning stringy and then lumpy I had to resort to applying more than might have been necessary. So the question is how much would people expect to be used for two tyres? Mastik one comes in 30ml tubes. Is 30ml the most that should be needed for a single 700c 23 mm wheel and tyre? It also made me think once you add the weight of the glue a 250g tubular is no lighter than a 200g clincher + 70g innertube. The rims are certainly lighter though.

 

[dellzeqq]

double sided tape. Please. For your sake, and for the sake of those that love you.

I'm intrigued. Why? I've not used tubs for twenty years, and couldn't imagine going back.

 

[totallyfixed]

I'm trying out tubulars. Gluing them onto the rim is something that is going to take practise. Just hope I live long enough to master it. I followed this guide:

http://cnl.salk.edu/~jorge/xfer/TubularTiresAdhesivesandPracticePart1-4.pdf


To summarise:

1. Stretch tyres onto rim and inflate to 100+ psi (140 psi in my case) for 24 hours.

2. Thin layer of mastik one on the tyre backing tape also left for 24 hours.

3. Thin layer of mastik one on the rim, leave to dry 24 hours.

4. A second thin layer of mastik one on the rim, leave for 24 hours.

5. A third thin layer of mastik one one the rim, wait until tacky and mount the tyre.

5. When mounted and straight, firmly press down on the tyre while rolling to push tyre into rim.

6. Inflate to maximum and leave to dry for at least 24 hours.


I found applying the glue quite difficult. It gets tacky very quickly and to avoid it turning stringy and then lumpy I had to resort to applying more than might have been necessary. So the question is how much would people expect to be used for two tyres? Mastik one comes in 30ml tubes. Is 30ml the most that should be needed for a single 700c 23 mm wheel and tyre? It also made me think once you add the weight of the glue a 250g tubular is no lighter than a 200g clincher + 70g innertube. The rims are certainly lighter though.

I've been down the gluing route and even unstitched and repaired a tub, these days I use Tufo Tape and apart from the pre-stretching I can apply the tape, seat the tub and inflate inside 5 mins. I know there are plenty of old school who reckon cement will always be superior but tape is used for road racing and I have never personally seen one rolled. One of the biggest PITA is getting the stuff off again. Sorry if that wasn't particularly helpful, it was nice to see a question you don't see too often .

 

[earth]

double sided tape. Please. For your sake, and for the sake of those that love you.

I'm intrigued. Why? I've not used tubs for twenty years, and couldn't imagine going back.

I wanted to experience much lighter rims mainly. I am also intrigued by the notion of the tubular feel.

 

[earth]

I've been down the gluing route and even unstitched and repaired a tub, these days I use Tufo Tape and apart from the pre-stretching I can apply the tape, seat the tub and inflate inside 5 mins. I know there are plenty of old school who reckon cement will always be superior but tape is used for road racing and I have never personally seen one rolled. One of the biggest PITA is getting the stuff off again. Sorry if that wasn't particularly helpful, it was nice to see a question you don't see too often .

I was thinking about using the tape while doing all this gluing. I'm afraid I'm going to get spots due to all the solvent in the glue. But the .pdf I put a link to suggests following that technique keeps the tyre on firmer and of course was worried about the tyre rolling off. Now I've glued it on I am... worried about it rolling off...

 

[ayceejay]

The instructions on the Continental site are very clear. Next time buy a tin with a brush attached to the lid, this is much easier than a tube. If you decide to stick with tubs buy your next pair early and mount them on some old rims to stretch and cure ahead of time.

 

[biggs682]

double sided tape i found was easier to use and easier to clean off afterwards

 

[GrasB]

http://cnl.salk.edu/~jorge/xfer/TubularTiresAdhesivesandPracticePart1-4.pdf


To summarise:

1. Stretch tyres onto rim and inflate to 100+ psi (140 psi in my case) for 24 hours.

2. Thin layer of mastik one on the tyre backing tape also left for 24 hours.

3. Thin layer of mastik one on the rim, leave to dry 24 hours.

4. A second thin layer of mastik one on the rim, leave for 24 hours.

5. A third thin layer of mastik one one the rim, wait until tacky and mount the tyre.

5. When mounted and straight, firmly press down on the tyre while rolling to push tyre into rim.

6. Inflate to maximum and leave to dry for at least 24 hours.

Sounds about right, however it has to be done perfectly to be better than using tape. By my measurements a glued tub delivers a 1-1.5w per 10mph advantage. So one has to ask, is it really worth it?

 

[screenman]

I thought a lot of the pro teams stopped using tubs a while back. How much lighter are the rims compared with good tyre one?

Like many of my age tubs were the way for many years, I changed to the other side about 20 years ago and I would certainly not go back.

 

[GrasB]

I thought a lot of the pro teams stopped using tubs a while back.

From what I gather it depends on a lot of things. Some teams moved to clinchers so the number of wheels they need to carry is much lower (you can swap a clincher tyre over in the back of the team car, you need 3 days for a tub).

How much lighter are the rims compared with good tyre one?

It varies between rims but somewhere between 150g & 250g, basically the weight of the tyre.

 

[earth]

To clarify, I did actually buy a tin of Mastik One rather than a tube. This was because I have never done this tubular thing before and I was expecting to make mistakes. I mentioned the tube of Mastik because I assume a tube is enough for either a single wheel or two. So I imagine 30 grams of glue should be the amount to use.

The question is still how much glue would someone expect to use per wheel?

Tape would certainly be easier but again for a first time tubular user I was worried about the tyre rolling off. I have read this is less likely with glue. Admittedly this is if the gluing is done well. And the problem there is that gluing is a skill and that means it requires some practice.

Rims and pro's.

It appears quite a few pro's are using tubulars. I think this must be due to the lighter weight of the rim. Well, it can't be for the convenience or the rolling resistance. The rims are lighter. Just compare models of carbon wheels that come in clincher and tubular formats. The tubulars are much lighter and it is not the braking surface as they both have one. The clincher has to withstand the pressure of the tyre forcing outwards while the tubular does not. My rims are at least 200 grams lighter than my clincher rims and the tyres are slightly lighter as well - without the glue.

And why I decided to try them. I am certainly no pro and I don't wanna be a wanna be but I do live somewhere very hilly and I have wanted to try feather weight rims for a while. I have always put it off but I found some on a good discount and thought why wait? I'm still relatively young and as people say 'Life is not a rehearsal'. So I got them.

I finished gluing them last night so I am going to give them a try this evening. If I still have use of my fingers tomorrow I will say how I got on.

 

[Herzog]

Good quality tape removes the hassle of using glue - the chances of the tyre rolling off are very, very small (perhaps the same as an in-adequately prepared glued tub?).

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

The pro's use glued tubs as they provide the best of two worlds. Performance and the ability to continue, for a while, on a punctured tyre. The tyre can't fall off allowing the rider to stay upright. A clincher can come off the wheel entirely if pressure is lost from the inner tube. In the pro peloton this is not a desirable feature.
Also the pro's don't need to do road side puncture repairs like us unlucky lot. A punctured tub is just replaced with the rest of the wheel.

I personally run a set of tubs which i glued with the trickiest glue known to man - Tubasti. Think chewing gum that's half dried. Thing is though that it won't be coming off the wheel. Nor will the tyre. I also know that changing tyres is about as much fun as a kick to the nether region.

Personally i wouldn't feel confident cornering hard on taped tubs though. Just a personal thing. Some people swear by them.

Also worth noting that most of the time i ride clinchers. Tubs are for racing or nice weather riding imo. Remember to buy a can of pitstop or similar for your back pocket when riding them. Some even carry a spare tub.

 

[thegravestoneman]

I always used tubs and started on glue but soon moved to tape, I have used tubs all through the snow and will continue to until my rims are shot. I have never had a tub come off the rim and I do corner energetically. I can change a tub road side in about 5 minutes. I do still carry the spare tube under my saddle using a toe strap, if I am going further afield I will carry two. I can understand those that prefer the glue but you still have to get home if you have a failure I can't sit on the kerb for three days . My tubs that had been sat on the rims for the 25 years of storage were still firmly on with tub tape after the punctures forced me to remove them ( I binned them though as the cotton casing was shot on one and the inner tube was hard on the other.Tyre technology has moved on a lot though and I will try 'clinchers' . (Only having the one road bike at the moment may cloud my present opinion though)

and Tubasti Oh I remember that stuff

 

[fossyant]

I used to use tape. The glue is a mare !