Frame ID help required please..... spade BB marking???

[sittingbull]

I've posted this before a little over 2 years ago and received a few helpful comments but no positive ID.

As the CC clientele have evolved over this time I'm hoping someone may recognise it.

Note the distinctive fastback style seat cluster, the apparent spade on the BB, the word "brands" on the fork crown and the above BB cable guides.

As always, any help appreciated

 

[Sharky]

Wild guess after googling. Is it colner frame?

 

[sittingbull]

It would be nice to think it was

I've just done a Colner search and as far as I can see the confirmed Colners have cut out spade emblems on the BB

 

[classic33]

Can give a date(rough) Made from 1995-1998. From previous posting.

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=7b65d881-f33c-46ba-a788-3027d338def8

 

[biggs682]

@sittingbull that looks nice and you have kept that quiet

were they not a Belgian company ?

 

[midlife]

Over BB cable guides, long dropouts, lateral t t cable run on TT, cinelli MC fork crown make it late 70's, maybe 80's at a pinch but by then portacatena / shorter dropouts had taken over. Are the barakes countersunk?

Brands may well be the name of a shop?

Shaun

,

 

[sittingbull]

@classic33 it is likely the groupset was updated around the time you quote, possibly after the yellow re-spray

@biggs682 you probably saw it previously, it's one of Ken's, still unidentified. Belgian?.... any names?

@midlife some useful pointers, I don't have the frame to hand so cannot say whether the brakes are countersunk. I can't confirm dropout spacings either, which may be of use. "brands" may well be the name of a shop, or even a rider, maybe applied at the same time as the spade emblem, I have no idea whether these are etched, stamped or engraved

There is a number stamped on the BB, just visible in the photo above, it would appear to be 198*, possibly 1980.

I still have the original photos so could possibly show more detail if required.

 

[midlife]

1980 fits with the design of the fame. Lugs could either be Prugnat S4 or Bocama competition which arrived in the early 80's. Fastback looks really well executed and the guides on the left if the frame are for Campag etc. Nice

Shaun

 

[classic33]

There was a Brands frame builder last listed in Suffolk, late 70's. There is also a Brands Cycles there at present, but thought that last one was too obvious.

 

[sittingbull]

@classic33 that is potentially useful, having searched previously I cannot recollect tying the word "brands" to a frame builder. Can the spade be associated with anything that you have found?

Surely this frame is not a one-off?

 

[classic33]

Name came up in a list of frame builders, in the UK. Gave a rough location if no longer there or the address where known.
Coincidence that there's a Brands Cycle shop in Suffolk!

 

[classic33]

Number on BB begins with a modern 4, not the older figure four(two vertical, one horizontal line).
There's something else below the fourth digit of the number, but unable to make it out properly

 

[sittingbull]

Not sure about a 4, maybe scratches etc.?

Not so sure about 1980 now, I can only really make out 19, then an 8 after the spade.

The spade emblem now looks to have a raised profile and appears to be lug-lined.

 

[classic33]

Limited number!
"Frame number" is actual number of frames made.

 

[sittingbull]

Ideally this frame will be being re-sprayed and built up soon.

A positive ID really would help