Flat training

[marinyork]

Thinking of doing more flat training in 2010 as my dead flat speed leads a lot to be desired, to say the least.

So my training bike has 28/38/48 at the back and a 7 speed freewheel 14-16-18-20-22-24-28 the gear I use most often (nearly always) is 38/20 which is around a staggeringly tiny (compared to others) 52 gear inches. The big cog gear I'm most likely to use is 65" but this is far too big for me to be able to spin properly for very long. Alternative gears I could use for flats training are 38/18 which is 57" and 48/22 which is 59".

I've found somewhere where I think I can do some stomp work or whatever but I'm unsure how long I should be doing it for, intensity and so on and especially which gear. It's not like the heart rate sky rockets to max HR in 65" either, it's just fairly painful on the legs, particularly the lower leg muscles.

So any ideas on training in the above context would be good. Cheers .

 

[MacB]

Select a gear then pick a 20 mile rolling route, stay in that gear, when you've done it 5 times then move up a notch and repeat. If you're keen you could be moving up every week to two weeks. Based on what you currently use, start out in your 38x18, then move to 48x22, then 48x20 and finally 48x18, approx 70 inches. You can move beyond the 70 inches if you want but I'd stop there and start trying to get quicker over the same route.

 

[Crackle]

Select a gear then pick a 20 mile rolling route, stay in that gear, when you've done it 5 times then move up a notch and repeat. If you're keen you could be moving up every week to two weeks. Based on what you currently use, start out in your 38x18, then move to 48x22, then 48x20 and finally 48x18, approx 70 inches. You can move beyond the 70 inches if you want but I'd stop there and start trying to get quicker over the same route.

Sounds a good plan that, often do similar over shorter distance routes.

 

[marinyork]

Sounds a good plan that, often do similar over shorter distance routes.

What sort of distance?

The problem is, I don't have particular problems doing what I regard as "rolling routes" in 38/18 I think that's the problem, I've got far too used to using that gear. Although I haven't tried it in the gear up 38/18, that could be a start - I could see how I get on on my 13 mile training loop with that. The current loop isn't really that suitable for that kind of work, but it's what I'd be most able to compare it to. Probably time for me to devise a flatter route for this work, although I'd have thought it'd be about 9 miles .

 

[Crackle]

I've a 10 mile route I often use for that, sometimes an 18 mile one. Pick a route and distance which suits, big hills aren't necessarily helpful.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Blimey! How different we cycle! My fave gear is about 42 x 15 which I had on my fixed (73" I think on a 27" wheel).
To imnprove flat speed, 3 suggestions.
1. ride with a group or somebody faster.
2. Do a basic form of interval training, like Swedish 'fartlek'; When on your rolling route say pick to points to sprint between, say traffic lights or one junction to the next and go absolutely flat-out as hard as you can... then spin out for say 5 to 10 mins and pick another 2 points to sprint between and repeat. In cities I'ts good to do alternate sets of lights for example.
3. Time Trial: ADDICTIVE, PAINFUL AND FUN.

 

[marinyork]

Blimey! How different we cycle! My fave gear is about 42 x 15 which I had on my fixed (73" I think on a 27" wheel).
To improve flat speed, 2 suggestions.
1. ride with a group or somebody faster.
2. Do a basic form of interval training, like Swedish 'fartlek'; When on your rolling route say pick to points to sprint between, say traffic lights or one junction to the next and go absolutely flat-out as hard as you can... then spin out for say 5 to 10 mins and pick another 2 points to sprint between and repeat. In cities I'ts good to do alternate sets of lights for example.

I know it's ridiculous, it's why I'm trying to do something about it . I started off in the bigger gear but at a very low cadence which was totally wrong and for the last 3 years been in small gears at pretty high cadence and it's gone higher and higher (at times). My average speed hasn't budged much the last 3 years, but I can do much longer distances.

I think fartlek can help on my regular training route. The problem is how to measure the results. When I was messing around a year ago trying to work out what the fastest I could get on the city bike was a bit like this because I'm so familiar with the route I know where to push to get more out of the bike on my very slow legs. What'd happen though would be the average speeds were all over the place 11.6mph, 12.4mph, 13mph, 13.99mph even though you'd be just as dripping with sweat as absolutely going for it the whole way round. The route just has too many red lights, downhill bits where you have to be careful and junctions to read that much into it.

Riding in groups, hmmm. I've tried this and although once or twice it got massively improved results what usually happens is a group will start bombing along at 17, 18, 20, 21mph on the flat and I'll find it hard to keep up on the city bike for anything more than a third of a mile. That's before you get into clubs which will cruise at even higher than this. The odd thing is even tail end charlies seem to be able to do this and then when they reach an incline go along to crawling speed . About the only person of my ability better sadly doesn't really ride with me any more.

 

[fossyant]

On the flat (on road bike), I use between 76" and 89" - cadence around the 90-110 rpm region. Fixed is 74"

I feel you may want to do some 'interval' training - i.e. flat out for a minute, rest, go again, this way you'll bring up your speed and power thresholds.

 

[marinyork]

What sort of gear inches are the Manchester Velodrome bikes?

When I've tried interval training before I just don't know how long to really do it for.

 

[dan_bo]

About 84"- 50*16.

Last session we did 10 seconds on, 10 off * 5 seated, 2 mins off, then repeat but standing. It was torture.


If you've got a turbo, Yorkie, there's plenty of turbo sessions/interval details on the net.

 

[marinyork]

I thought the track bikes were about 75" or something for some reason. Maybe there's hope for me yet. What I found interesting the first time in Manchester was that the timed track average was very fractionally faster than the top speed I've got on the marin on the flat.

All right what I think I'll do is use a 9 mile flatter loop for intervals and/or bigger gear MacB style. I suppose MacB's idea might work 100 miles in a larger gear, you'll start to get used to it a little bit.

As for cadence for what FF and Fossy were saying I'm more likely to spin at 125 in 52" than 90rpm in 65" (at the same speed). Or perhaps I should use the bianchi for training more, but I'm still not used to the gears even after 9 months.

edit: perhaps I worry too much and it's a winter whinge, set the fastest time of the year on the city bike at 5pm tonight .

 

[MacB]

In case you think I meant 100 miles straight off I didn't, I'd just suggest that would be how far you'd have to train before moving up a gear. 9 miles is fine to start with but I'd think about doubling that, just do the same route twice. Aim to get it down to 1 hour or less, for intervals you can just throw in the odd minute at max effort. Choose a part of the loop that is suited and go for it. 2-3 months of doing this, I'd go for 3-4 times a week, and then you should be at a point to decide if you need a more dedicated plan.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I've recently bought a cycle-computer with Cadence and now know that my comfortable cadence is around 85 rpm. I'll therefore unwittingly choose the gear that gives me 85rpm at the speed I want to travel. I guess when I was younger and lither I'd have been able to spin faster, but whether I could now reach or maintain 125 rpm is an experiment for another day. About 5 years ago prompted by the club coach I tried spinning and despite 2 years frenzied effeort it never really worked for me, so I've gone back to my lazy revving style. If 125 works for you, then try and maintain that cadence at a cog higher than you normally would and work the muscules a bit more!

 

[MacB]

we've seen Marin 'spinning' his gears, hamster, wheel and going nowhere springs to mind

 

[marinyork]

I've recently bought a cycle-computer with Cadence and now know that my comfortable cadence is around 85 rpm. I'll therefore unwittingly choose the gear that gives me 85rpm at the speed I want to travel. I guess when I was younger and lither I'd have been able to spin faster, but whether I could now reach or maintain 125 rpm is an experiment for another day. About 5 years ago prompted by the club coach I tried spinning and despite 2 years frenzied effeort it never really worked for me, so I've gone back to my lazy revving style. If 125 works for you, then try and maintain that cadence at a cog higher than you normally would and work the muscules a bit more!

It depends what you mean by work, I wouldn't say that my long term average speeds say that it works at all! The only thing it does seem to work for is slight gradients and inclined hills where other riders who are also not so good will slow down to 10mph or 6mph even on faster bikes and you get this ridiculous concertina effect where I catch people up slightly on hills and then they pull away again on the flats. I think I can spin the bigger gears better now than 3 or 4 years ago but back then it was ridiculous like 45 rpm which was why I stopped doing it. If you go on thigh size this sort of makes sense (46cm) compared to other cyclists they are very, very small and they are actually quite a bit larger than they were when I started.

18 mph MacB, you're having a laugh now, if I could do that all of my problems would be over . If I could do that I'd probably be doing 14mph training loops.