First Electric Bike Choice

[Bad Company]

I’d never ridden an eb until today.

Mrs BC and I have been riding Speicalized Globe Hybrids for some years now. We’re now looking to extend our range and time by going electric. We’ve been looking at:-

Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 - This is really light for an EV and I liked it for lots of reasons though it needs the range extender which brings the price to around £3000. A downside is that it can only be charged with the battery in the bike.

Cube Kathmandu Hybrid ABS 750 - This is a very well equipped bike which needs nothing added. It has a great range but it’s very heavy which could be an issue getting 2 of them onto our bike rack. The other advantage is that the battery comes out of the frame so can be charged away from the bike.

Any other thoughts recommendations?

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

If getting them on and off a biek rack is important than I would look at bikes where the battery - which is the heaviest part of the bike most of the time - can be taken off first and put in the car.
Then th ebike is lighter to lift

Also - check the maximum weight that the rack can take - some "strap it to the hatchback" type racks are only OK for quite low weights.

After that the obvious applies
Don;t go for cheap - a lot of cheap ebikes come from China and are put together using teh cheapest stuff they can find - and you REALLY don;t want a cheap lithium battery the size of an ebike battery!

On which point - go for a good, well know make. Personally I like by Bosch. However they do have a reputation where if it breaks you have to replave it - and they ain't cheap!
Other good makes exist - SUntour maybe or Shimano - or Bafang - are they reliable?

DO others have recommendations for good reliable makes

 

[Bad Company]

If getting them on and off a biek rack is important than I would look at bikes where the battery - which is the heaviest part of the bike most of the time - can be taken off first and put in the car.
Then th ebike is lighter to lift

Also - check the maximum weight that the rack can take - some "strap it to the hatchback" type racks are only OK for quite low weights.

After that the obvious applies
Don;t go for cheap - a lot of cheap ebikes come from China and are put together using teh cheapest stuff they can find - and you REALLY don;t want a cheap lithium battery the size of an ebike battery!

On which point - go for a good, well know make. Personally I like by Bosch. However they do have a reputation where if it breaks you have to replave it - and they ain't cheap!
Other good makes exist - SUntour maybe or Shimano - or Bafang - are they reliable?

DO others have recommendations for good reliable makes

Hopefully neither of the bikes we’ve tried can be described as ‘cheap’.

Our car bike rack is good for 2 x 30K bikes.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Id really recommend going to a proper electric bike shop and getting some expert advice. I used the Electric Bike Shop (Harrogate) recently and they were great, other branches are available.

That said I'm really not keen on that specialized. As you've noticed the range is a lot poorer, and the lack of removable battery limits where you can charge it. It also doesn't have a display as standard, just a small light to indicate power level.

The Cube is great, I was looking at those myself along with something else called a Haibike Trekking. Big comfy tyres, suspension and removable batteries. Yes they are heavier but they are very well equipped.

 

[Espresso vecchio]

Id really recommend going to a proper electric bike shop and getting some expert advice

Absolutely right. A shop selling just ebikes is where it start. Most will sell only 3-4 brands so they know exactly what they are talking about, not to mention identifying what type of of riding you do, the pros and cons of different types as well as hub motors vs bottom bracket motors. All will offer a decent ride to try them, and some offer a long loan for a modest returnable fee.

We bought my wife's bike (Raleigh, made in Hungary) at Smilebikes in Norfolk, but there are plenty of other good shops. Not cheap but worth every penny. I was so impressed by her bike that I soon wanted my own to add to the collection... I looked on Gumtree for some time to get a feel of the market and prices, and soon realised that prices are definitely in favour of the buyer, and that there are plenty of bikes that are scarcely used. I looked for Raleighs only as I knew by then what to look for. I bought one that was immaculate at 18 months old with under 1000 miles on the clock and at just over 1/3rd of the new price. Genuine seller, complete with original invoice, charger and keys. Beware a bike without keys, manufacturer's booklet and charger, as it might have been stolen. Looking at Gumtree recently, I see that there is a steady number of new adverts. Some appear on eBay too.

Whatever you do - remember that known brands, and there are several, cost much more than Chinese ones from non-specialist shops. There's definitely a role for cheaper new bikes, but they are less likely to be good, less of a pleasure to ride and less well-designed and made. The two bikes you have seen already are both excellent, but it's worth saying that most people would insist on a removable battery for a host of very good reasons.

 

[albion]

Quick look around. People buy those Vados when they are on offer, £1500 being about right.(Certini, thebikefactory)
The Vado 3 and the Turbo Tera 3 look better at £1850 (bike factory). Yes, the bike rack weight would be disconcerting.
Every bike has its pros and cons.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Hopefully neither of the bikes we’ve tried can be described as ‘cheap’.

Our car bike rack is good for 2 x 30K bikes.

Sorry - yes I agree that you are not looking at the cheap end

but there is cheap and cheap - I have seen a few more expensive ebikes that had no-name motors and batteries
or even proper named motors linked to no-name batteries

In my opinion the battery is the most important thing to be sure of
a low quality battery will not last as long and they are expensive to replace
and the chances of it causing problems - including fires - are higher - BUT not as high as some papers try to make out!

 

[Bad Company]

Thanks for the help so far.

I noticed that the tyres on some of the electric bikes are very wide. When you get a puncture does the tyre come off & back on with normal tyre levers?

 

[Drago]

Mine come off with levers, go back with my bare hands and some grunting.

 

[sheddy]

Removing the battery can make the bike less appealing to bike thieves - out & about or stored at home

 

[Bad Company]

Removing the battery can make the bike less appealing to bike thieves - out & about or stored at home

That’s very much on my mind. The Specialized Vado will be very attractive to thieves. What I like is that it feels like a proper bike though. Some of the others feel like a quasi moped.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Yup -

Thanks for the help so far.

I noticed that the tyres on some of the electric bikes are very wide. When you get a puncture does the tyre come off & back on with normal tyre levers?

no problem - I carry 3 plastic ones with me and they never fail (so far!!!)

If you have a hub drive then you have a minor problem with the cable taking power to the hub
but the ones I have seen recently have a plug in the cable run near the hub that you can unplug and after that the rear wheel comes off normally

I have heard some horror stories about hub drives requiring all sorts of tools and techniques to change a tube/tyre
don;t listen to them - my first ebike had the hub hard wired to the frame but I still managed to get the tyre and tube on and off from the other side with a little bit of effort and thought - no extra tools or strength needed!
I even did it at the roadside in the rain once!!

Maybe ebikes with bigger motors - so either illegal or from countries that allow them - are different - but it is just size and weight so I can;t see why it would be that bad

 

[albion]

They vary. You really need to suss them before the puncture event, even if they are easier than hub geared bikes.
Like you hinted, they ain't easy. Obviously, mid motors are easiest.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Mid motors are easier for changing a tyre/tube

however the power does go through the chain and gears - which causes excess wear and tear on them

Personally I have had both and prefer the mid drive - but them the mid drive is Bosch and the hub drives were either cheap(ish) or from the early days of ebikes

so good hub drives might be as good as mid drives for feel

 

[bonzobanana]

I think a hub motor with a torque sensing bottom bracket is not really different in feel to a store bought mid-drive ebike. Yes you can make the point off-road for mountain biking the motor is better placed in the bottom bracket area plus of course e-mountain bikes with mid-drive motors are typically very powerful up to 100Nm torque at the crank although they are pulling close to 900W to achieve that.

I also think you shouldn't confuse price with quality. Hub motors are simpler and typically more reliable than mid-drive motors. Some of the more expensive mid-drive ebikes are short life disposable products which often become uneconomic to repair. The frame is dedicated to the motor and the motor is paired with the battery etc. One element fails and you have a very high bill or it's uneconomic to repair. Mid-drive motors have internal gearing sometimes belts and the controller board with all its heat is right next to the motor. There are lots of thermal issues with mid-drive motors and often they can drop power on long ascents, chain snaps are common. I personally consider overall mid-drive motors as inferior to hub motors except for off-road use.

The thing about hub motor ebikes is they have two independent drive systems, you peddling and the motor itself and they can work independently of each other. If by chance you damage your drivetrain and break the chain you can ghost pedal home on motor power or of course if the motor fails and stops providing assist its just back to being a heavy normal bicycle depending on fault. I just think for long distance cycling they make much more sense and you can have a torque sensing bottom bracket instead of cadence sensing if you want the same sort of feel as a mid-drive motor typically from Bosch, Shimano etc. I question the point of low power mid-drive ebikes as they often provide less power than hub motors. Some of the Specialized lightweight commuter based ebikes only provide 35Nm and by the time you have factored in the gears you are down to 25Nm or less. All that extra complexity for a very low power ebike. Just seems pointless to me. However at least being so low powered means while the drivetrain will wear faster than normal its nowhere near as bad as a high powered e-mountain bike approaching 100Nm of torque. The statistic is from a few years ago but I remember a Chinese industry statistic that over 95% of the ebikes they sold were hub motor based and that other 5% didn't just have to account for mid-drive motors but other types of motors like the brushed motor kits that are popular in India which mount to the stays. Remember the average price of a bike sold in the UK is about £400-500 including ebikes. This doesn't allow for a huge amount of high cost bikes and ebikes.

Also wasn't it Specialized that had a ebike battery fire safety recall?

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/30-august-2022-safety-notice

These are very low volume products too compared to other ebikes. I'm not seeing huge number of pre-built Chinese brand ebikes getting battery recalls and if they are sold from within the UK they still have to go through the same certification and testing process including the batteries. There are much greater concerns with modified ebikes, ebike kits wrongly configured and of course personal imports etc like aliexpress where the ebike may not have gone through a certification process.