Dutch city form - why they have tracks

[Richard Mann]

http://www.discusmedia.com/catalog.php?catId=10.1

I found these city plans on t'internet: they seem to show that in the Netherlands, when we were merrily building byelaw streets and terrace houses, their cities were still mainly confined to the central core. They expanded their cities in the early car age, not the tram/bike age. I think this is why the typical Dutch city form goes straight from wide streets to narrow ones. On the wide streets they generally have room for tracks; on the narrow ones they generally restrict motor vehicles.

Whereas, all too often in the UK, our main roads (especially the inner bits) are 50ft between property boundaries, and there isn't enough room for tracks.

So cars have to be slowed down so that we can share the restricted space.

Obviously parts of London and other major cities have wider central streets, but out in the suburbs, I think 50ft byelaw streets are more the norm.

 

[gaz]

London only has a few wide streets. The rest are narrow!

 

[Red Light]

London only has a few wide streets. The rest are narrow!

Milton Keynes has wide streets and a complete segregated cycle network but no-one uses it much.

 

[ufkacbln]

Milton Keynes has wide streets and a complete segregated cycle network but no-one uses it much.

Because the Redways are notorious for muggings and assaults!

 

[growingvegetables]

The other thing to take into account is the huge amount of Britain's urban road network which was laid down between the 1930s and 1960s ....... when cars and vans were significantly narrower. Cars are perhaps 20-25% wider than they were then, maybe even more?

Back then, fat-arsed grey BMWs used to get launched from the Clyde, hold names like Ark Royal, and carry a fleet of aircraft to land on them.

 

[Baggy]

Because the Redways are notorious for muggings and assaults!

And they're no longer very well maintained or signposted...
When the Redways were first built they were well used though.

 

[PK99]

http://www.discusmed....php?catId=10.1

I found these city plans on t'internet: they seem to show that in the Netherlands, when we were merrily building byelaw streets and terrace houses, their cities were still mainly confined to the central core. They expanded their cities in the early car age, not the tram/bike age. I think this is why the typical Dutch city form goes straight from wide streets to narrow ones. On the wide streets they generally have room for tracks; on the narrow ones they generally restrict motor vehicles.

Whereas, all too often in the UK, our main roads (especially the inner bits) are 50ft between property boundaries, and there isn't enough room for tracks.

So cars have to be slowed down so that we can share the restricted space.

Obviously parts of London and other major cities have wider central streets, but out in the suburbs, I think 50ft byelaw streets are more the norm.

Look here>>>>>>
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrqG0DqkSlw


for a better reason "
History of Cycle Paths in the Netherlands

 

[User169]

For proper Dutch-stylee cycling fast-forward to 1:10....


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRUpNf4Xbdg


(Not many cycle lanes/tracks so far as I can tell)

 

[dellzeqq]

Because the Redways are notorious for muggings and assaults!

that's both fair and unfair. They had a reputation, but they are also dementedly slow.

And, Baggy, I'm sorry, but I lived up there when they were first built, and very few people used them - the inhabitants of North Buck were simply devoted to their cars.

 

[Red Light]

For proper Dutch-stylee cycling fast-forward to 1:10....

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KRUpNf4Xbdg

(Not many cycle lanes/tracks so far as I can tell)

How on earth did they survive? Two up on a bike, no helmets, no hi-viz, no cycle lanes, cycling all over the tram tracks and an aggressive driver.

 

[Red Light]

that's both fair and unfair. They had a reputation, but they are also dementedly slow.

And, Baggy, I'm sorry, but I lived up there when they were first built, and very few people used them - the inhabitants of North Buck were simply devoted to their cars.

That can't be right. We are constantly told that all we need to do is build segregated cycle facilities and people will abandon their cars in droves for cycling.

 

[Richard Mann]

Look here>>>>>> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=NrqG0DqkSlw

for a better reason "
History of Cycle Paths in the Netherlands

I'd seen that (and there's quite a good description in the Bicycle Master Plan, as well): I think it makes more sense when you realise that the countryside was only just outside the "city walls" until quite late, so nothing much changed until they were well into the car era.

Napolean had left them with nice wide roads outside the city centres, and - they kept them.

Whereas we widened 20ft country roads by the minimum we felt was necessary at the time.