Driver who kills cyclist actually charged with Murder

[Jezston]

http://tucsonvelo.com/news/cyclist-killed-in-eastside-crash/9580

And in the US, too - where they have a nasty habit of not even charging drivers atl all for hospitalising or killing cyclists.

 

[Matthames]

I wonder how this would pan out when it gets to court and then to sentencing, as the state of Arizona still uses capital punishment. So if charged with murder he could be sentenced to death, so the courts will have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this was indeed murder.

 

[HLaB]

I wonder how this would pan out when it gets to court and then to sentencing, as the state of Arizona still uses capital punishment. So if charged with murder he could be sentenced to death, so the courts will have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this was indeed murder.

I'm not sure if the death sentence applies to 2nd degree murder :?:

 

[Red Light]

When the US decides to go for it, it goes for it.

 

[fimm]

Is "2nd degree murder" not more analogous to the British (or do I mean English?) offence of manslaughter?

 

[Jezston]

Is "2nd degree murder" not more analogous to the British (or do I mean English?) offence of manslaughter?

I don't believe so.

1st degree murder is premeditated - "that's it, I'm gonna get a gun, go over to that guy's house and kill him!" kind of murder, that's you've had plenty of time to think over and yet not realise it's wrong. 2nd degree murder is spur of the moment like finding your wife in bed with another man and immediately strangling him, or seeing a cyclist and suddenly deciding you want to run him over which you should know is likely to kill.

Manslaughter would be if you pushed the guy off for a laugh not realising it might seriously hurt or kill them and they died. Except in the UK it would probably be considered careless driving and you'll just get 3 points on your license and a £20 fine.

 

[david1701]

I thought death caused by negligence was manslaughter in an Industrial context (gotta love employers HnS briefings) so surely it should carry over if a driver was proved negligent?

 

[Bobtoo]

I seem to remember hearing years ago that the US, or at least some states, were planning to treat all drink driving related deaths as 2nd degree murder.

 

[lulubel]

Here we are, from Wiki:

First Degree Murder is any murder that is willful and premeditated. Felony Murder is typically first degree.[sup][5][/sup]Second Degree Murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance.[sup][6][/sup]Voluntary Manslaughter sometimes called a "Heat of Passion" murder, is any intentional killing that involved no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed." Both this and second degree murder are committed on the spot, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter.[sup][7][/sup]Involuntary Manslaughter stems from unintentional, but reckless or criminally negligent behavior. A drunk driving-related death is typically involuntary manslaughter. Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional," because the killer did not intend for a death to result from his intentional actions.

It doesn't make much sense to me really. How can murder not be premeditated? Unless they put a minimum amount of time that it has to be premeditated for before it counts as premeditated. In any case, it sounds like a very hard one to prosecute.

 

[CopperCyclist]

Premeditation is NOT needed for murder - in the UK anyway. Its a common misconception, and doesn't fit any of the legal points to prove. If premeditation can be shown, it simply helps to prove the 'intent' part of murder.

All you need to be guilty of murder (mostly all anyway, not going into specifics about sanity etc) is the intent to kill someone or the intent to cause the GBH to the victim, and they die.

If, on the spur of the moment, I grab a knife and decide I'm going to stab you and you subsequently die, I've committed murder.

Thats the technical truth anyway. Courts tend to accept manslaughter in cases similar to the above because a defence to murder is 'a loss of self control' which will reduce it to manslaughter, and its pretty much impossible to PROVE intent, as it exists solely in the mind of the defendant. You've got to prove justification for the 'loss of self control' though.

 

[apollo179]

I cant understand why a few murders are on the news for weeks while some you dont hear anything about. A guy across the road from me was stabbed to death on his doorstep and it wasnt even in the local paper.