Drive Train Replacement

[Sam Wardill]

I took my wife's Ridgeback Cyclone in for its first paid for service after 9 months. I took it back to the shop that sold it to us. They told me that it needed a new chain and chainset. I declined. I don't think a bike should need a new chainset after 9 months.

It ocurred to me that under the UK Sale Of Goods Act I may be able to claim that, if the bike needs such a significant replacement after such a short time, it was not of merchantable quality when sold. When I said that I did not want to be replacing the chain and chainset every 9 months the mechanic stated that the replacement chainset that he would fit would be of better quality and would last longer (therefore indicating that the initially fitted chainset was sub-standard). Has anyone ever tested this?

 

[compo]

On the face of it 9 months isn't long, but you don't say what kind of mileage the bike has covered or how you have cared for the chain. When you say chainset did you mean the rear cassette or the front chainwheels or both! It is customary to replace rear cassette and chain together, although you should get through 2 or 3 chains before needing a new cassette.

 

[Sam Wardill]

I think that, were you trying to claim based on Sales of Goods Act merchantable quality then the usage and care of the bike would be hard to prove. That said, the bike is used for commuting ~ 16 miles / day for 6 of the 9 months and the chain has been cleaned and oiled twice in that time.

I mean I was advised to replace the rear cassette as well as the chain. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "It is customary to replace rear cassette and chain together, although you should get through 2 or 3 chains before needing a new cassette." Do you mean that, although it is customary, it is unnecessary to replace rear cassette and chain together?

 

[Broadside]

You indicate that the bike has done around 2,000 miles so far. Chains are a consumable item and need to be replaced when they become worn, I would expect with the level of preventative maintenance you have done then it probably needs to be replaced.

If it has worn past a certain point then the new chain will skip on the cassette in which case you need to replace the cassette. If you are against spending money then leave it as it is, eventually the chain will break but this is a long way off. Running a worn chain will continue to wear the cassette further and will eventually wear the front chain rings.

The usual advice is to replace the chain frequently so the cassette only needs to be changed every 3 chains or so but it will need doing eventually. You should get much longer out of the front chain rings if you don't run a well worn chain on it.

I don't think you have any case whatsoever questioning the "merchantable quality". The bike has covered 2,000 miles, it needs maintaining and will not run forever otherwise.

 

[gbb]

I think (with sympathy Sam) that your expectations are too high re transmission life.

Lubed twice ? has it been used during the winter...which is notoriously hard on transmissions. Twice isnt much even during the dry months, i tend to lube my chains every week, then clean and lube feverishly (not literally ) during the winter months.
TBF, the chain originally fitted may be a lesser quality (it also may not be) but if everything was top quality on your bike in the first place, you'd be paying a lot more for it.

You've done roughly 2000 miles minimum looking at your estimate...thats not bad, i only get 1200 miles out of a chain thats very well cared for. Granted its 10 speed chain which will wear quicker than say 7 or 8 speed, but at 2000 miles, i'd say thats ok.

As far as the bike shops quote, you don't know exactly how worn the chain is and therefore how worn the cassette is likely to be. Unless you measure the chain and find its wear, you're relying on the honesty of the LBS.
0.75% wear, replace the chain.
1% wear, probably have to replace the cassette as well.....although you may get away with just doing the chain.

 

[Sam Wardill]

0.75% wear, replace the chain.
1% wear, probably have to replace the cassette as well.....although you may get away with just doing the chain.

Thanks for the advice. The bike shop said the chain was 0.75% - 1% wear. I think I will replace the chain at this stage. The bike mechanic didn't even offer this as an option which I think is poor.

 

[Sam Wardill]

Can anyone recommend a chain? Looking at the bike spec it had a Shimano UG51. Given that I am not replacing the cassette is it best just to replace like for like (I'm thinking that there is little point upgradingthe chain if I am not replacing the cassette)?

 

[gbb]

Thanks for the advice. The bike shop said the chain was 0.75% - 1% wear. I think I will replace the chain at this stage. The bike mechanic didn't even offer this as an option which I think is poor.

Sadly Sam, some LBS are better than others, but also there's a logic in what they propose (from their point of view)...
So the chains mid way...if they replace the chain and it quickly becomes evident the cassettes beyond its best, some customers will berate the LBS as being a load of crud because their bikes still acting up.
Their remit is to give you back the bike in the best and safest condition they can..i guess they're (quite rightly sometimes) covering themselves.

 

[Banjo]

You can get a Shimano 8 speed Cassette with 11/32 cogs and a Clarkes 8 speed chain complete with quick connector from Halfords for less than £30 (order on line for store collection,its considerably cheaper than the off the shelf price)

Its a 10 minute job to replace .

Personally I would change the chain first see if it works ok then get the cassette later if needed. TBH 2000 miles of grimy winter commuting isnt too bad. A more frequent clean and lube may have extended its life.

 

[compo]

I think that, were you trying to claim based on Sales of Goods Act merchantable quality then the usage and care of the bike would be hard to prove. That said, the bike is used for commuting ~ 16 miles / day for 6 of the 9 months and the chain has been cleaned and oiled twice in that time.

I mean I was advised to replace the rear cassette as well as the chain. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "It is customary to replace rear cassette and chain together, although you should get through 2 or 3 chains before needing a new cassette." Do you mean that, although it is customary, it is unnecessary to replace rear cassette and chain together?

The question was directed to me, but has been amply replied to during subsequent posts. My apologies for my poor English.

 

[amaferanga]

Sadly Sam, some LBS are better than others, but also there's a logic in what they propose (from their point of view)...
So the chains mid way...if they replace the chain and it quickly becomes evident the cassettes beyond its best, some customers will berate the LBS as being a load of crud because their bikes still acting up.
Their remit is to give you back the bike in the best and safest condition they can..i guess they're (quite rightly sometimes) covering themselves.

Surely if they explain to the customer that they should replace the chain and see if there are any problems then that'd be better. Customer then only has to buy a new chain and will then quickly find out if any other bits need replacing (which often they won't) as opposed to spending a lot more on a new cassette and chainset just in case. There's no logic - it's about maximising how much money they can make out of the customer who doesn't know any better.

FWIW a cassette and chainset should last several chains. 2000 miles would be about right for the lifetime of a chain used for commuting in all weathers IME and if it hasn't stretched by more than 1% then the chainrings and cassette should be fine. The cassette on my best bike (which is looked after a little better than oiling twice in 9 months mind) is on its 5th chain now and has done about 12,000 miles. It doesn't look new, but then it's still not worn beyond accepting a new chain.

 

[gbb]

Surely if they explain to the customer that they should replace the chain and see if there are any problems then that'd be better. Customer then only has to buy a new chain and will then quickly find out if any other bits need replacing (which often they won't) as opposed to spending a lot more on a new cassette and chainset just in case. There's no logic - it's about maximising how much money they can make out of the customer who doesn't know any better.

FWIW a cassette and chainset should last several chains. 2000 miles would be about right for the lifetime of a chain used for commuting in all weathers IME and if it hasn't stretched by more than 1% then the chainrings and cassette should be fine. The cassette on my best bike (which is looked after a little better than oiling twice in 9 months mind) is on its 5th chain now and has done about 12,000 miles. It doesn't look new, but then it's still not worn beyond accepting a new chain.

As always, there's a truth either way in there somewhere...the LBS may be maximising its profit possibilities by being 'economical' with the facts ...and i'm a realist, there's plenty out there that will, but being that realist makes me realise the LBS's a business, and like any other, they need to make money.

As an afterthought...a business is constantly dealing with different kinds of customers with different expectations and needs.
Ive been in garages where the customer has been presented with a (to me) extortionate quote for repairs....they've shrugged their shoulder and said..'thats fine'.
I went away thinking 'jesus, thats a rip off, their doing far more than neccessary' (IMO). But, the customer presumably wanted their car back in a condition they wouldnt have to worry about for the forseeable. The cost presumably want an issue.

I used to work with a guy that commuted by bike. He didnt do any maintenance, just dumped his bike at the LBS once a year when it stopped working, they'd replace all sorts on it and present him with a bill.
He wasnt phased by this at all...'i'm still saving hand over fist, and i know the bike will be ok for another year'

For every customer that comes through the door, they'll rarely know exactly what his expectations are. Do the work, take the money, move onto the next customer.

You are right of course, that explanation of what the options were would be so simple....but business is tough, only the tough survive.
This is exactly why i do my own maintenance, lets face it, if you're reasonably proficient at DIY, nothing much on a bike is rocket science. DIY and save all the uncertainty over whether someone may be trying to rip you off.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

You can get a Shimano 8 speed Cassette with 11/32 cogs and a Clarkes 8 speed chain complete with quick connector from Halfords for less than £30 (order on line for store collection,its considerably cheaper than the off the shelf price)

Its a 10 minute job to replace .

Personally I would change the chain first see if it works ok then get the cassette later if needed. TBH 2000 miles of grimy winter commuting isnt too bad. A more frequent clean and lube may have extended its life.

It's a 10 minute job to change cassette and chain if you have the right tools. Without the right tools, e.g. a chain breaker if the OEM chain has no 'quick link', and to possibly shorten the new chain to length, and a cassette removal tool and chain whip. Without them it is virtually impossible. Buy them and you are well on the way to an LBS free life, which, sometimes, is a good thing.

I'd buy a decent cheap chain, KMC, Clarks, you'll know on the first ride if it needs a new cassette, it will skip like a Kangaroo called Skippy.

I'd learn to love my new chain using the mickle method.

If the chainrings need changing after 2000 miles then I'm baffled. Or they are made of cucumber.

 

[Banjo]

Thing with paying for tools is you only pay once instead of forking out time after time for LBS to do it.

Re Clarkes Chains. I recently fitted a Clarkes 8 speed chain to my hybrid.I was surprised to feel it skipping on the 11 tooth cog. Couldnt find a stiff link or anything then noticed that the quick link supplied with the chain is curved and I had put it on upside down so the curve was back to back with the radius of the cassette cog . Smooth as silk now.

 

[Cubist]

Don't skimp on the cassette. You can get decent Shimano ones from Evans for 15 quid. Add a tenner for a SRAM PC 850 chain from All Terrain Cycles and you have bought a some real peace of mind. Get a chain wear indicator and make sure you change the chain at 0.75% wear, and that cassette will last you another couple of chains.

Lubing your chain twice in 2000 miles isn't exactly best practice either!