Disproportionate sentences?

[Piemaster]

Local rag reports of court sentences:

Unlicenced quad bike rider: £100 fine, £15 surcharge, £40 costs
Driving using mobile: £110 fine, £15 surcharge, £40 costs
Driving using mobile (2): £122 fine, £15 surcharge, £200 costs
Riding cycle on pavement: £175 fine £15 surcharge, £40 cost
Driving without undue care/attention: £250 fine, £15 surcharge, £50 costs

I'm surprised that the cycling got as far as a court as I thought it was usually dealt with by fixed penalty, but the circumstances (and attitude) of those caught make a difference. Watching the TV fly-on-the wall type programmes often throws up similar type decisions, reckless driving attracting the same penalties as an out of date tax VED disc.

A system that actually makes financial sense to run a car illegally (no VED, insurance, MOT) and even have a cheap car crushed. I find it completely bizarre.

 

[byegad]

All true, but how do we change this. Moaning won't help and there are plenty of MPs being lobbied by anti-cyclists. So, given our relative lack of numbers we are between the proverbial rock and a hard place!

 

[Piemaster]

Actually I was rather hoping you had the answers! And it was a bit of a moan.

Am not convinced of 'anti-cycling'. I think its more 'who?' and a shrug of the shoulders, a small group that probably most people don't even think of, apart from when I'm happily cycling past queues of stationary cars .

A fine based on a % of income, as I believe is the system in Germany, would be better but I can't see the politicians ever having even the nerve to suggest it. For mobile users handing them back a crushed phone might just get the message through. Cars are crushed for motoring related offences so its not a great leap to do the same for a mobile phone.

 

[Piemaster]

Perhaps things are improving. Albeit slowly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cover-story-boyfriend-killed-cyclist-car.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-15733826

Its an improvement on the £200 fine and a few points that have been handed out too often. In the second case the driver admitted to drinking but seemed to think it wsn't careless driving?

 

[marinyork]

Perhaps things are improving. Albeit slowly.

http://www.dailymail...yclist-car.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk...dshire-15733826

Its an improvement on the £200 fine and a few points that have been handed out too often. In the second case the driver admitted to drinking but seemed to think it wsn't careless driving?

It's an interesting point, but I have often pointed out that a lot of the worst cyclist stories (not here) we hear about involve someone leaving the scene of the accident and failing to stop/report. The law is there to try and protect some of these people and you stop to try and give them a sporting chance of living by receiving medical treatment. Unfortunately some don't do this. Some of them even concoct elaborate stories to say why they didn't stop. I've yet to see an example of someone who has received a gaol sentence commensurate with the seriousness of it (say 3 months out of a maximum of 6 months). Or until today found it hard to recall a story of someone being done for perverting the course of justice (although it is harder to demonstrate in many of these cases than say here).

I know this sounds a bit bizarre, but I'd actually 'view' the story in terms of how the justice and police might see it as a case of an uninsured driver getting caught (many similar stories). It is just that it resulted in a very serious accident and a cyclist ended up killed .

As for the BBC story, if you look at the charge sheet and aggravating factors the 3 years doesn't look quite as long as it first appears.

 

[dawesome]

It's an interesting point, but I have often pointed out that a lot of the worst cyclist stories (not here) we hear about involve someone leaving the scene of the accident and failing to stop/report. The law is there to try and protect some of these people and you stop to try and give them a sporting chance of living by receiving medical treatment. Unfortunately some don't do this. Some of them even concoct elaborate stories to say why they didn't stop. I've yet to see an example of someone who has received a gaol sentence commensurate with the seriousness of it (say 3 months out of a maximum of 6 months). Or until today found it hard to recall a story of someone being done for perverting the course of justice (although it is harder to demonstrate in many of these cases than say here).

I know this sounds a bit bizarre, but I'd actually 'view' the story in terms of how the justice and police might see it as a case of an uninsured driver getting caught (many similar stories). It is just that it resulted in a very serious accident and a cyclist ended up killed .

As for the BBC story, if you look at the charge sheet and aggravating factors the 3 years doesn't look quite as long as it first appears.

Yesterday:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cover-story-boyfriend-killed-cyclist-car.html

 

[marinyork]

Yesterday:

http://www.dailymail...yclist-car.html

I generally assume people can read my posts. If you have anything other than trivialities to say on the matter I would welcome your input.

 

[dawesome]

I generally assume people can read my posts. If you have anything other than trivialities to say on the matter I would welcome your input.

I was agreeing with you, that's a pathetic sentence for a serious crime. It makes no sense that leaving the scene of an accident is not dealt with as seriously as drink driving, for obvious reasons. There could also be the French law introduced here, I don't know what they call it but it's "Failing to render assistance" or something so anyone who leaves a victim and doesn't help can be prosecuted.

 

[Jonno Boy]

The French law is currently subject to challenge in the European Court.

The German law is interesting, as it does have a requirement to provide assistance - but combines it with the 'Good Samaritan' principles. Even better, in Germany knowledge of basic emergency measures and First Aid and CPR Certification are prerequisites for the granting of a driving license.

The only issue is that First Aid and CPR competencies officially lapse after a year.

 

[the snail]

If I were injured, I wouldn't expect someone to render first aid - they might do more harm than good - but they should at least call for an ambulance etc.

 

[the snail]

I was thinking about a legal obligation to call for help. Unless everyone has first-aid training (which would be a good idea), then you can't expect them to give you first aid. The German system seems good though, and I'm glad I've had training.