Dilemma - The knees or the ankles

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Over winter I tweaked my cleat angles and lateral positioning on the turbo and all seems perfect for my knees but now my ankles are rubbing against the cranks. Before I mess about with my cleats again I'm just throwing this open to the forum, has anybody any ideas as to what I should do ?
 

Fiona N

Veteran
Use Crank Brothers or Speedplay pedals - high float means cleat positioning is much less critical.

Actually, thinking about your problem with your ankles rubbing the cranks made me wonder about your ankle stability as it seems like your toes would need to be pretty turned out for the ankles to hit the cranks otherwise.

Do you have problems with flat arches or similar inward lean of the ankle joint? Might be worth looking at getting some good insoles (Conformable or similar) or seeing a bike fitter about wedge systems.
 
OP
OP
HLaB

HLaB

Marie Attoinette Fan
Use Crank Brothers or Speedplay pedals - high float means cleat positioning is much less critical.

Actually, thinking about your problem with your ankles rubbing the cranks made me wonder about your ankle stability as it seems like your toes would need to be pretty turned out for the ankles to hit the cranks otherwise.

Do you have problems with flat arches or similar inward lean of the ankle joint? Might be worth looking at getting some good insoles (Conformable or similar) or seeing a bike fitter about wedge systems.

Cheers for your thoughts. I have orthotics but the physio said not to bother wearing them for cycling but maybe I should try again; my ankles are tingling again today.
 

henshaw11

Well-Known Member
Location
Walton-On-Thames
Actually, thinking about your problem with your ankles rubbing the cranks made me wonder about your ankle stability as it seems like your toes would need to be pretty turned out for the ankles to hit the cranks otherwise.

Doesn't mean they're unstable, just means they're different..a colleague has a similar issue - he walks *very* toe-out*. Some years ago he tried spds (a few times) and messed his knees up every time. Eventually he's bought some pedal extenders so that his heels miss the cranks and his knees are ok -this sort of thing:
http://www.kneesaver.net/

*always reminds me of the 'keep on trucking' comic:
http://en.wikipedia....%27_%28comic%29
 
I have a similar problem .. not with crank rub, but more with heel rub on carbon chain stay .. Not the best thing to be doing. I put some washers between pedals and cranks and that seems to have helped.. You can buy them at exhorbitant prices from various shops or take a few of some old spark plugs..
 

Nebulous

Guru
Location
Aberdeen
I've got absolutely nothing useful to add to this conversation - but everytime I read the title I get an image of someone who is going to be kneecapped and is given the choice 'It's up to you, do you want it in the knees or in the ankles?'
 

Fiona N

Veteran
Doesn't mean they're unstable, just means they're different..a colleague has a similar issue - he walks *very* toe-out...

Ah that's different. What I was referring to is often called 'collapsed arches' or by runners 'over pronation' (although the action here is quite different to cyclists) - when load on the foot causes the ankle to 'collapse' inward more than it should (a certain amount of inward flex is 'designed into' the ankle/foot system as the arch of the foot acts like a shock absorbing system). In someone with strong ankles this doesn't happen but with weak or damaged ankles, the roll of the ankle inward can lead to knee problems, as it changes the alignment of the knee through the load cycle, as well as moving the inside of the ankle joint uncomfortably close to the crank as they pas at the 3'o'clock position.
 

lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
Cheers for your thoughts. I have orthotics but the physio said not to bother wearing them for cycling but maybe I should try again; my ankles are tingling again today.

I'm an overpronator in terms of running, and I'm guessing you probably have a similar problem, hence the need for orthotics. When I first started cycling (in a pair of old trainers) I had quite a lot of knee and ankle pain, which resolved itself when I started wearing my support running shoes for cycling. So, I suspect cycling may be putting more sideways load on your joints than your physio thought it would, and trying the orthotics would be a good idea.

I haven't gone clipless yet, but I'm planning to, just as soon as I've got myself sorted out with orthotics to wear in my cycling shoes!
 

Fiona N

Veteran
...So, I suspect cycling may be putting more sideways load on your joints than your physio thought it would, and trying the orthotics would be a good idea.

I think physios who don't have much experience of cyclists just equate cycling with 'low impact' without understanding that, while there is no 'impact' as such, each turn of the pedal causes a load on the foot which needs to be stabilsed at the foot/ankle joint. You can see what happens by standing on one leg in front of a full length mirror (hold the back of a chair for support if your balance isn't the best). Now lift your heel slightly (to simulate the pedal under your forefoot) and do a slow one leg squat - to about the same bend as on the bike. Notice the alignment (or not) of the toes, ankle, and knee and note how much effort it requires to keep your ankle stable in order to keep your knee over the second toe rather than drifting inwards or outwards. This is basically what you're doing each pedal stroke and the harder you press the pedals, the more likelihood of discomfort and injury (hence the exhortations to spin not grind the gears).

If you use an orthotic for running/walking, I'd suggest that in most cases, you'll need it for cycling unles you pedal with the pedal under the mid-foot (which pretty much removes the ankle joint from the equation and has a lot of supporters in the world of triathlon as it preserves the calf muscle for running). I didn't use orthotics for running (mainly because I was an off-road runner and fore-footer) but I do have very solid insoles for my cycling shoes which support the arch/instep to the point where they feel quite odd if I stand in them. This has the effect of keeping the alignment of the knee even when pressing hard - something I need particularly for recumbent riding :biggrin:
 
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