Difference between an Raleigh pioneer Commuter and Wisp

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Hello all,
As some my recognize in my profile picture i now have an Raleigh Pioneer Commuter what i have found a begin 90'' model. (with Weimar brakes.) It drove very well for the past year and a half but unfortnuatlly it no has developed a long list of issues. As i can't do most repairs myself i'm looking for an replacement. I bought a cheap Giant but that's not really my cup of tea. (feels quite wobbly if you go above 40km/h)
So i locally there is an 10 speed raleigh Wisp listed, two tone 10 speed Weimar brakes on the pictures it looks nice but i can't find much about the model, anyone familiar with this one? It seems they also sold a motor or motorised vehicle under that name/model

 

[DCLane]

The Raleigh Pioneer's a hybrid. The going rate only seems to be about £30-50 for one, which is why I'm keeping mine. It's a very useful go-anywhere bike.

A Raleigh Wisp is a ladies road bike, looking like this:

Depending on the age it'll have either 27 1/4" or 700c wheels, probably with the same 130oln as a Pioneer. Gears will be slightly different - 5 speed freewheel and the Pioneer will be 5/6/7 speed.

It'll have a steel frame and slightly smaller geometry but may fit. A few male CC members have mixte frames like this one.

 

[brucers]

Pioneers are quite common in the 2nd hand market. You should not have too much problem finding a replacement should the Wisp not be for you.

 

[Deleted member 1258]

The Raleigh Pioneer's a hybrid.

A Raleigh Wisp is a ladies road bike, looking like this:

View attachment 460477

Depending on the age it'll have either 27 1/4" or 700c wheels, probably with the same 130oln as a Pioneer. Gears will be slightly different - 5 speed freewheel and the Pioneer will be 5/6/7 speed.

It'll have a steel frame and slightly smaller geometry but may fit. A few male CC members have mixte frames like this one.

I've always liked the mixte frames, never owned though, that one looks neat.

 

[Cycleops]

I'd have thought they'd be quite different to ride.
I would tend towards the Pioneer for commuting with its better brakes and fatter tyres for comfort.
if the Wisp has 27" tyres and steel rims that's another reason for going for the Pioneer.
@SkipdiverJohn is a bit of a Pioneer fan.

 

[dbeattie]

Here's a wisp I got for my daughter in law from Common Wheel in Glasgow. Retro frame with more modern bits that work.

 

[mikeymustard]

Hi @dutchguylivingintheuk So what exactly is wrong with the Pioneer? There shouldn't be anything too difficult to fix, apart from maybe bottom bracket, and worn parts can be replaced cheaply thanks to it being reasonably modern (compared with some folks' bikes around here anyway ), and a flourishing 2nd hand market takes care of broken components
If you're particularly fond of your bike then a donor bike might be the way to go.

BTW I know simply replacing the bike seems the easiest option, but we like to think we're doing our bit to save the planet and rescue something from going to landfill!

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I would tend towards the Pioneer for commuting with its better brakes and fatter tyres for comfort.
if the Wisp has 27" tyres and steel rims that's another reason for going for the Pioneer.
@SkipdiverJohn is a bit of a Pioneer fan.

Quite a lot of lower-spec Pioneers also had steel rims, albeit in 700 size, so don't assume because the Pioneer first appeared in 1989 that they must have alloy wheels. My pub hack Pioneer has 700 steels harvested from a '92 Ladies donor. Very early ones from 1989 had traditional forks, not unicrowns, and 1989-1990 models at least had caliper brakes not cantis, so there's lots of variables if buying used. The high spec ones had Reynolds 501 or 4130 cro-moly frames.

So what exactly is wrong with the Pioneer? There shouldn't be anything too difficult to fix, apart from maybe bottom bracket, and worn parts can be replaced cheaply thanks to it being reasonably modern (compared with some folks' bikes around here anyway ), and a flourishing 2nd hand market takes care of broken components
If you're particularly fond of your bike then a donor bike might be the way to go.

BTW I know simply replacing the bike seems the easiest option, but we like to think we're doing our bit to save the planet and rescue something from going to landfill!

I can't really imagine what could go wrong with a Pioneer mechanically that would necessitate replacing the bike. I pull mine apart down to individual component level and do whatever they need doing. They are the bike equivalent of a Morris Minor in DIY-friendliness. The ones I have stripped appear to have industry standard BB's not Raleigh's own oddball threading. 90's MTB stuff seems to interchange OK on them.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

The Raleigh Pioneer's a hybrid. The going rate only seems to be about £30-50 for one, which is why I'm keeping mine. It's a very useful go-anywhere bike.

A Raleigh Wisp is a ladies road bike, looking like this:


Depending on the age it'll have either 27 1/4" or 700c wheels, probably with the same 130oln as a Pioneer. Gears will be slightly different - 5 speed freewheel and the Pioneer will be 5/6/7 speed.

It'll have a steel frame and slightly smaller geometry but may fit. A few male CC members have mixte frames like this one.

The one i'm looking at has a different steer (almost straith) 10 gears and 27 1/4''

I'd have thought they'd be quite different to ride.
I would tend towards the Pioneer for commuting with its better brakes and fatter tyres for comfort.
if the Wisp has 27" tyres and steel rims that's another reason for going for the Pioneer.
@SkipdiverJohn is a bit of a Pioneer fan.

going for a test ride this week but i love my pioneer too, it is indeed a 27'' wheel model.

Hi @dutchguylivingintheuk So what exactly is wrong with the Pioneer? There shouldn't be anything too difficult to fix, apart from maybe bottom bracket, and worn parts can be replaced cheaply thanks to it being reasonably modern (compared with some folks' bikes around here anyway ), and a flourishing 2nd hand market takes care of broken components
If you're particularly fond of your bike then a donor bike might be the way to go.

BTW I know simply replacing the bike seems the easiest option, but we like to think we're doing our bit to save the planet and rescue something from going to landfill!

The parts itself are not the main issue altough it does add up, it's the bottom bracket, chain, suspected rear freewheel and/or cassette, tires and cables although those are cheap and i can't do that myself. and then off course the cost of labour. ( the quote was 180£)
I haven't decided on replacing yet i just looking around and considering my options. I like the pioneer a lot because it is very sturdy also at high speeds and not popular amongst thieves as i have to park in the town centre or station cycle park a lot.

 

[DCLane]

The parts itself are not the main issue altough it does add up, it's the bottom bracket, chain, suspected rear freewheel and/or cassette, tires and cables although those are cheap and i can't do that myself. and then off course the cost of labour. ( the quote was 180£)
I haven't decided on replacing yet i just looking around and considering my options. I like the pioneer a lot because it is very sturdy also at high speeds and not popular amongst thieves as i have to park in the town centre or station cycle park a lot.

Why not learn to do it yourself? There's probably a local community bike workshop near you that can help with it, and may even loan the tools at the same time. Alternatively a toolkit should be about £20 and either get The Bike Book or Youtube videos.

Chain - £5
Freewheel - £5
Bottom bracket - £10-15
Tyres - £5-15 each
Cables - £10

That's £60-75 and you've learnt a new skill plus the Pioneer works fine again.

 

[mikeymustard]

Why not learn to do it yourself? There's probably a local community bike workshop near you that can help with it, and may even loan the tools at the same time. Alternatively a toolkit should be about £20 and either get The Bike Book or Youtube videos.

Chain - £5
Freewheel - £5
Bottom bracket - £10-15
Tyres - £5-15 each
Cables - £10

That's £60-75 and you've learnt a new skill plus the Pioneer works fine again.

And you have formed an even bigger bond with your Pioneer

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Rebuilding bikes is not something I've ever considered as a skill needing to be specifically learned. When I was a youngster all the kids were always pulling things apart and tinkering with them to make working stuff out of discarded junk, or repair self-caused damage caused by crashes and silly stunts gone wrong. Things like brake blocks and ball bearings may have been bought from the LBS, but no-one would dream of taking the bike in for repairs, they were always done in the back garden at as little cost as possible.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Update: Changed the gear and brake cables, oiled the chain and it ride's like a charm again. I do expect that i need to change the chain soon but for now a couple of cables did the trick, and i got loads of parts left from my temporally bike(which i have taken apart as parking in the town centre was'nt really good for him, silly thing the Pioneer can sit there for ages whitout anyone even noticing it and an already beat up Giant is vandalised or attempted to steal parts from in hours.
Maybe the lack of quick release wheels is an advantage here.