Dear Inspector Knacker

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GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.

I am secretary of the Horsham and District Cycling Forum which exists to promote safer cycling in Horsham District, with a primary focus on Horsham town itself. The Forum and its membership look forward to establishing good relationships with our police and PCSO's and would welcome the opportunity to collaborate with both to tackle issues like those who ride at night without lights, or ignore specific cycling restrictions, like that in the North Street Subway, as such collaboration has paid dividends in other Sussex towns.

A member of the forum has asked me to contact Sussex Police and the PCSO for the town centre to get some clarity as to intentions in respect of issuing FPN to 'pavement cyclists' in the Carfax in particular and in the town centre as a whole. His understanding is that PCSO's are currently issuing 'yellow cards' in preparation to delivering FPN's in due course. Can you confirm or otherwise if that is the case so I can advise the forum accordingly? My understanding is that one such yellow card was issued to a female cyclist riding a bike, complete with front shopping basket, at walking pace across an uncrowded Carfax earlier this week.

As a Forum we have no time whatsoever for anti-social cyclists, and we are aware that riding a bicycle on a footway that is an offence. As a Forum we are in favour of all road users knowing the rules/laws which apply to them and complying with them. We are favour of the police policing these laws. But we cannot, in the current situation in Horsham, condemn pavement cycling, per se, provided it is done in a manner which is totally courteous to pedestrians, nor do we see it as a high policing priority in Horsham Town Centre, where, for instance, we'd argue that inappropriate vehicular use of East Street, or parking on the double-yellow lines in the Carfax is a higher priority.

When the new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. The then Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by Community Support Officers and wardens.

"CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.

I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. " (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)

Has different advice since been issued to Sussex Police and PCSO such that it is now appropriate to issue warnings and potentially, FPNs, to people who cycling in the Carfax despite their showing due consideration to pedestrians there? The alternative to cycling in or across the Carfax involves lengthy detours. The require cyclists to use Albion Way, which doesn't really bear thinking about for most folk on two wheels, using the conundrum that is East Street, where motor vehicles which are not loading or unloading but simply driving en route to the Carfax, are now a frequent and regular occurrence to the inconvenience and danger to pedestrians and cyclists alike, or by entering the Carfax via Blackhorse Way, another route which is not for the faint hearted.

If people are cycling in an anti-social manner by all means issue warnings and FPNs. If they are cycling on a footway in a considerate and sensible manner the Forum would urge you to please use the discretion you have available to you.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Greg Collins
N Hurst Road, HORSHAM, RH11 1AB

Secretary, Horsham & District Cycling Forum.
 
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GrumpyGregry

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
Will keep you posted as to responses. East Street is a bizarre psuedo-pedestrianised street which the council(s) attempted to pedestrianise illegally, had to back track, and now is a complete cludge.
 
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GrumpyGregry

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
It has winged its way from Police HQ in Lewes to the inbox of the PCSO responsible for our town centre and HQ have given me his name and contact details. A start.
 

downfader

extimus uero philosophus
Location
'ampsheeeer
Bit confused. Are they actually handing out yellow cards?

Also my understanding is that the FPN is supposed to be about a non-criminal-record punishment, if they're taking down details then perhaps that means they're going against the guidelines..? Surely its either a fine or a verbal warning, or an "on your way son, you're no threat!"
 
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GrumpyGregry

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
Bit confused. Are they actually handing out yellow cards?

Also my understanding is that the FPN is supposed to be about a non-criminal-record punishment, if they're taking down details then perhaps that means they're going against the guidelines..? Surely its either a fine or a verbal warning, or an "on your way son, you're no threat!"
Not aware of anyone being asked for details but they are certainly handing out yellow cards.

Haven't had a response from the PCSO team leader however tonight I saw the town centre PCSO team, accompanied by a parking enforcement chap, ticketing all the illegally parked cars in East Street. Hurrah. Much better use of their time to deal with the locals who think the loading and unloading only bays in the pseudo-pedestrianised street are the perfect spots in which to park their w@nkp@nzers whilst they stuff their faces in one of the many restaurants there. Walking all of 75m from the free car park being obviously beyond them.
 

subaqua

What’s the point
Location
Leytonstone
Not aware of anyone being asked for details but they are certainly handing out yellow cards.

Haven't had a response from the PCSO team leader however tonight I saw the town centre PCSO team, accompanied by a parking enforcement chap, ticketing all the illegally parked cars in East Street. Hurrah. Much better use of their time to deal with the locals who think the loading and unloading only bays in the pseudo-pedestrianised street are the perfect spots in which to park their w@nkp@nzers whilst they stuff their faces in one of the many restaurants there. Walking all of 75m from the free car park being obviously beyond them.

you could be in Burgess Hill with that description !!!
 
I don't know the area but what is the basis of the FPN. A quick look on Google Maps seems to show it as a pedestrianised area. Now the pavement cycling law is only applicable to a pavement that is alongside a road and this doesn't seem to be alongside the road. There may be other laws or bylaws that are being broken but it wouldn't seem to be the Highway Act 1835 pavement cycling one.

There was something similar recently just off Russell Square in London where a whole PCSO team were out ticketing cyclists but then after discussions with the local police it was agreed that cycling there was perfectly legal so they had to track down all the cyclists and refund their payments.
 
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GrumpyGregry

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
I don't know the area but what is the basis of the FPN. A quick look on Google Maps seems to show it as a pedestrianised area. Now the pavement cycling law is only applicable to a pavement that is alongside a road and this doesn't seem to be alongside the road. There may be other laws or bylaws that are being broken but it wouldn't seem to be the Highway Act 1835 pavement cycling one.

There was something similar recently just off Russell Square in London where a whole PCSO team were out ticketing cyclists but then after discussions with the local police it was agreed that cycling there was perfectly legal so they had to track down all the cyclists and refund their payments.
Local bylaws prohibit cycling in the Carfax on the large parts of it that aren't a footway. Though the signage is imo, defective. Other parts are a footway.

No one has yet been issued with an FPN. Yellow cards and 'warnings' have been issued tis all. I'm trying to make sure it doesn't get to the FPN stage. Especially as we are working with the local council to get the bylaws altered.
 

downfader

extimus uero philosophus
Location
'ampsheeeer
I suppose if the "yellow card" is a card with "here are the laws" then that can make sense.

If there is a call to legitimise cycling there then I know Southampton Cycle Campaign have done similar by showing that cycling has happened along said route for x many years, they also got a count of cyclists who have used it and when and shown that there has been no conflict with pedestrians...

...but you prolly already know about such an approach.
 

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
Location
Bugbrooke UK
There was something similar recently just off Russell Square in London where a whole PCSO team were out ticketing cyclists but then after discussions with the local police it was agreed that cycling there was perfectly legal so they had to track down all the cyclists and refund their payments.

Whereabouts near Russell Sq was that?
 
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