Cyclist Fatality - A38 Nr Lee Mill, Devon

[Origamist]

Sadly, I saw the aftermath of this fatality and knew the chap by sight.

RIP Chris Dennehy

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Tri...y-died-crash/story-22891982-detail/story.html

 

[Deleted member 35268]

Depressing and sad. Something has to change.

 

[daysnways]

depressingly sad, RIP.

 

[Ganymede]

What a lot of lovely things are being said about him. Very sad. And it's a lorry again.

 

[growingvegetables]

RIP - and condolences to family and friends

 

[ComedyPilot]

RIP

 

[Mandragora]

The final verdict in yesterday: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-33797275

So, the lorry driver admits guilt in that he drove 'carelessly' by not paying attention to what he was doing with that truck of his at it bowled along at 54mph, and while leaning over to get his mobile phone, he knocked down and killed the cyclist who was wearing a high vis jacket. This wasn't, apparently 'dangerous'. I'd say that it certainly seems pretty dangerous to me, given that someone died as a result of his lack of focus.

 

[numbnuts]

RIP condolences to family and friends

 

[Origamist]

John Noble stone-walled nearly all of the questions the police put to him ("no comment") and chose not to take the stand. It sounds like that approach worked in his favour. Hopefully an appropriate custodial sentence will follow for the guilty plea to causing death by careless driving.

Here here is John Noble, in the news again, on another criminal matter: http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Man-flashed-girls/story-11697328-detail/story.html

 

[PhilDawson8270]

The final verdict in yesterday: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-33797275

So, the lorry driver admits guilt in that he drove 'carelessly' by not paying attention to what he was doing with that truck of his at it bowled along at 54mph, and while leaning over to get his mobile phone, he knocked down and killed the cyclist who was wearing a high vis jacket. This wasn't, apparently 'dangerous'. I'd say that it certainly seems pretty dangerous to me, given that someone died as a result of his lack of focus.

Annoyingly it's difficult to find any information about the case, and the evidence provided for being not guilty.

The eternal problem when you have juries comprised of motorists...

I'm going to guess that it was a definition argument, I believe that using a mobile phone is dangerous. But, being distracted by one is careless. Now idea how they decide what the difference in reality is. But I'm guessing that this was the argument.

I found the court records of the case, it was a 3 day long hearing with 4 witnesses called by the prosecution, and none called by the defense. To me this sounds like it was a technicality or arguing a definition of dangerous driving as a defense.

It will be interesting to see what the charge is for Death by Careless Driving though.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

That's not a definition that seems to be in accordance with the CPS guidance, which suggest being distracted by a mobile phone can fall squarely in the dangerous driving box.

Bad wording, I meant that they were examples of successful cases in courts

Most likely is that the jury had a 'there but for the grace of God' moment and went with the lesser charge which he'd pleaded guilty to. It would be interesting to read the guidance and instructions given to the jury by the judge.

Empathy is annoyingly common a jury, I did jury service, and a lady was found not guilty of fraud (counter signature of a fraudulent remortgage of their parents home). I was on my own with my opinion, the other 11, had the opinion that "We have signed without reading stuff properly before". As soon as there is even the tiniest bit of doubt, it's a not guilty

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Strictly speaking, not true. People get overly influenced by TV and film dramas. The actual criminal standard applied in the UK is 'so that you are sure'. That doesn't mean no doubts at all - just no reasonable doubts.

Beyond all reasonable doubt.

Which as I said, if there's any doubt that's reasonable it's not guilty.