Conditioning

[Red Light]

As I was zooming through the narrow gaps between lanes of stationary traffic yesterday in London I got to wondering why it is that I am quite happy doing that and passing within inches of vehicles on both sides yet if they passed me at that distance I would be most upset. I decided that it was the perceived control aspect - I know pretty much my skill level and what I am going to do but have to trust the driver's when they are doing the passing.

But that then got me on to wondering whether we are inadvertently conditioning drivers to think its alright to pass that close to cyclists given that they see us all the time passing them that close. Discuss.

 

[gbb]

Perhaps a minority may think that, but any driver with an ounce of sense would know that 1 tonne of car passing a cyclist is another matter.

Of course, it can go wrong...i was doing something similar to you, just getting through gaps and managed to catch a Peugeots wing mirror and flick it back
Immediate stop, shuffled back, put my hand up to the driver and repositioned his mirror and apologised.

He was pretty impassive, didn't react at all

 

[Fiona N]

...

Of course, it can go wrong...i was doing something similar to you, just getting through gaps and managed to catch a Peugeots wing mirror and flick it back
Immediate stop, shuffled back, put my hand up to the driver and repositioned his mirror and apologised.

He was pretty impassive, didn't react at all

Lucky - I did the same with a car stopped in behind an ASL which I wanted to wait on. I had to filter between the two lanes and the free end of my curly plastic cable lock, hooked over the handlebars and just a bit wider than I realised, clipped the car's wing mirror and the guy went ballistic. I hadn't dislodged or damaged the mirror - just clunked the lock harmlessly off the plastic housing making a noise. If it hadn't been for the lights changing and me going off in the other lane...

 

[topcat1]

As I was zooming through the narrow gaps between lanes of stationary traffic

"zooming" through traffic, remember what happend to Gaz

 

[HLaB]

Of course, it can go wrong...i was doing something similar to you, just getting through gaps and managed to catch a Peugeots wing mirror and flick it back
Immediate stop, shuffled back, put my hand up to the driver and repositioned his mirror and apologised.

Lol I done that on a horrible, sleety winter morn turned round and saw a beautiful blonde that might have had a bearing on me going back to fix it

 

[al78]

Consider these two scenarios:

1. Cyclist passing stationary traffic at 10 mph, cyclist clips a car and falls off. What are the likely consequences for the cyclist?

2. Cyclist riding at 20 mph gets clipped by car traveling at 30 mph overtaking too close and falls off. What are the likely consequences for the cyclist?

The difference in consequences for the cyclist should things go wrong is why the two situations are not symmetrical.

 

[summerdays]

Definitely to do with the speed of the passing traffic, as the speed increases I want more space between myself and them, whereas if they are passing at very slow speeds (say going the opposite way though parked cars on both sides, then I don't mind a very small gap if the speed is very slow.

As to whether cyclists filtering past cars encourages close passes, I've not thought of it like that but I think that it is more the type of driver that normally determines the passing distance.

 

[User16625]

As I was zooming through the narrow gaps between lanes of stationary traffic yesterday in London I got to wondering why it is that I am quite happy doing that and passing within inches of vehicles on both sides yet if they passed me at that distance I would be most upset. I decided that it was the perceived control aspect - I know pretty much my skill level and what I am going to do but have to trust the driver's when they are doing the passing.

But that then got me on to wondering whether we are inadvertently conditioning drivers to think its alright to pass that close to cyclists given that they see us all the time passing them that close. Discuss.

Before I reply to other posts in this topic, the answer to your question is SPEED. Filtering thro traffic on your bike I would imagine your doing about 10 miles per hour faster than the traffic. Clipping a wing mirror at this speed isnt likely to result in a claim against your life insurance. Traffic typically pass you at much higher speeds. I will assume that your referring to a city centre tho. You answered your own question really coz if your that afraid of cars passing you at that slow a speed you really need to think of alternative transport. Its no bigger a deal than the fear of flying. You may feel safe enough on an aircraft, train, bus, shuttle launch or other public transport but thats not in your control either is it?


If your driving tho, give at least 3 feet of space for every 60mph of speed. For example you maybe on an open country road doing 120 mph, give them 6 feet of space. Obviously you cant give them much more than that at 180 mph in your ferrari but if they dont hear you then it wont matter much.....hopefully. Like I said....city centres and therefore slower speeds. I think 1 to 1.5 foot of space at all times is adequate in near stationary traffic. Good judgement should tell you this naturally. Beyond this, its upto the cyclist if he wants to risk his life. Kick his ass if he breaks a mirror. Wont help you with recovering costs but makes you feel so much better.

 

[Red Light]

Consider these two scenarios:

1. Cyclist passing stationary traffic at 10 mph, cyclist clips a car and falls off. What are the likely consequences for the cyclist?

2. Cyclist riding at 20 mph gets clipped by car traveling at 30 mph overtaking too close and falls off. What are the likely consequences for the cyclist?

The difference in consequences for the cyclist should things go wrong is why the two situations are not symmetrical.

All very logical but do you really think drivers sit there working through it like that? I suspect not and they just see it as normal that they and cyclists are that close together without thinking about speeds and consequences at all.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

A bike passing a car's not going to generate much of a wind eddy, but a car passing a bike is. Maybe drivers subconsciously take this into account?

 

[apollo179]

All very logical but do you really think drivers sit there working through it like that? I suspect not and they just see it as normal that they and cyclists are that close together without thinking about speeds and consequences at all.

Interesting idea redlight about cyclists zipping about skimming cars etc and the perception that creates.
As for zooming about and cycling potentially recklessly i reckon the reality is the same for cyclists and drivers and everyone. For all the theoretical acknowledgement of careful and safe cycling when one (i) gets on the bike the red mist dewscends and speaking personally i maybe cycle a smidgen below the theoretical perfect standard that i advocate and i reckon motorists do the same.

 

[HLaB]

A bike passing a car's not going to generate much of a wind eddy, but a car passing a bike is. Maybe drivers subconsciously take this into account?

Driver of artics maybe, but others don't seem too

 

[buggi]

this thought has also crossed my mind, but i think its ok to filter because:

1. your at a lower speed,
2. your outside a shell, so more able to just what an inch actually is
3. you're not hitting them with something that weighs a ton and if you do, they won't feel it, you will. if they hit you however, you will feel it, and may even die and they won't have any injury.
4. it's allowed.

It is as unacceptable for a car to pass you closely at speed as it is for you to pass an unsuspecting pedestrian closely and at speed on a cycle path. If while you were at a stop on your bike, a pedestrian squeezed past you, it wouldn't make you think that it was acceptable to make a close pass around a pedestrian. Therefore, this shouldn't make car drivers think it either. but then most drivers are thick so it probably does.

it shocks me how many people's cars i get in who are quite obviously nervous on the road. very worrying. they don't seem to be able to comprehend anything that it going on more than 20 yards ahead and thus are not ready for it when they get there.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

I thought a lot about this and did a blog article abou the differences, with some pictures, at http://www.happycyclist.org/?p=205

 

[CopperCyclist]

this thought has also crossed my mind, but i think its ok to filter because:

2. your outside a shell, so more able to just what an inch actually is

That's an excellent point and one I hadn't considered!

RedLight is probably correct. For some (not all) drivers, they probably do see you filter past them leaving a tiny gap, and so then later when they pass you, they witout thinking leave a small gap as well - I have no doubt this happens at some level, for some drivers.

However, for all the reasons given its also obviously wrong, and I think even the drivers who do it likely do it subconsciously and wouldn't genuinely put it forward as a defence to why they drove the way they did.

It's like nearly everything else in cycling - for the large part we have to have faith the the driving abilities of the cars around it. The majority drive well, and the minority let them down. It's certainly not a reason to suggest that cyclist can't and shouldn't safely filter, just because some bad drivers may be conditioned to a close pass because of it.