Climbing style

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leaner learner

New Member
Location
Stockport
I'm really keen to improve my climbing and have been reading alot of stuff sbout styles and techniques etc. I feel that I am improving and I know that I just have to keep hammering away at it but there is one thing that is bugging me.

It seems that staying in the saddle whenever possible is generally accepted as the best way to climb but I have read a lot of stuff that says get out of the saddle occasionally to spread the load over different muscles. So, I have been trying this (along with other things - pedalling technique, shifting in the seat, even breathing technique lol) but when I get out of the saddle I find that I have very little there and I tire extremely quickly forcing me to sit back down. This also leads to me having to drop to an easier gear for a short spell while I recover.

So what is it? Is it just the fact that my legs aren't strong enough yet? I've only been in the saddle 6 months and I'm a skinny fecker as it is! Or could it be that I am not choosing the right gear when switching to standing? Or is there something else I'm not doing? I think I tend to go at it a bit hard at the start of climbs and tire further up.

Help/advice appreciated.
 

PaulSecteur

No longer a Specialized fanboy
Are you using clipless pedals?


All other things being equal, when Im clipped in (using SPD cleats and pedals) I can stand up and really get the power going in quite a tall gear. When I change to normal pedals its no where near as good. Its like seperate power pulses each time the pedal goes down, whereas clipped in I can concentrate no so much on the downstroke, but more about keeping the pedals circulating.
 

delstron

Active Member
I'm the same so am watching this with interest.

I can climb OK sitting but useless standing up - no power, not smooth, tire straight away. Funnily enough when I started riding 7 years ago, I could do it......
 

Globalti

Legendary Member
Do more of it and eat good quality food. In a few weeks you'll notice that it gets easier and you'll find that your thighs are feeling quite thick. You might even put on some weight as the muscle mass increases.
 

zacklaws

Guru
Location
Beverley
Standing up is more tiring but it gives you a break from sitting down for a short while as mentioned. Do you change up a couple of gears when you go to stand, if not it will tire you out quicker by being in that lower gear you was whilst sitting as you will be spinning faster stood up and tire quick, soon as you sit down again drop back a couple of gears, break the hill up into segments between standing and sitting, or 20 revolutions sitting followed by 20 standing and do not look at the top. Also if your clipped up, point your toes downwards when standing, it uses less effort evidently, something to do with one less movement you have to make whilst pedaling which uses a lot of effort, I tried it and it does make it less tiring.
 

jimboalee

New Member
Location
Solihull
When you get out of the saddle to climb a hill, it is the weight of your body, less the weight of your forearms and hands because they are resting on the bars, and a little of the weight of the leg that is on the upward moving pedal, that provide the Newtons to generate torque at the bottom bracket.

The power involved is to lift all your mass and the bike upwards against gravity and forward against air resistance. When the torque at the bracket, combined with your pedaling cadence does not add up to the power required, you and the bike will stop moving.

Having your feet attached to the pedal allows you to pull up at the same time as dumping your weight on the downward moving pedal.

Not having your feet attached to the pedal is a similar exercise to Stair climbing.

Most people, even non cyclists, could carry a 25lb sack of spuds up several flights of stairs, so I think your problem is 'Stamina'. Stamina is the inverse of Fatigue. You are becoming fatigued.

You have not enough muscle fibres trained to do the work when demanded.
 

jimboalee

New Member
Location
Solihull
Do more of it and eat good quality food. In a few weeks you'll notice that it gets easier and you'll find that your thighs are feeling quite thick. You might even put on some weight as the muscle mass increases.

Simple and sound advice. Eat good quality protein.
Low gears is a 'Band Aid' over the problem.
 
Keep a constant pressure on the pedals throughout the climb by changing gear - don't start with heavy pressure as this will knacker the legs.

If you are a skinny type then work on generating a higher cadence in a low gear - this will initially tire you out on the flat never mind the hills.

The most efficient pedalling technique is to turn the cranks rather than press down on the pedal - watch Wiggins climbing and you see that his shoulders remain still as he concentrates on a smooth circular pedalling style even when he is out of the saddle - unless it is really steep when a pull up on the pedal and the use of your body weight to push down on the pedal is required.
 

jig-sore

Formerly the anorak
Location
Rugby
I'm exactly the same as well, after years and years of climbing in the saddle, which im quite good at (i've past people who were standing whilst i've been sitting and spinning). but i also wanted to start riding out of the saddle to give my bum a rest and just so i've got another "skill" to fall back on.

Ive started deliberately standing up to blast up the small rises in the road. the type of dip/rise where you would normally loose a couple of MPH and then quickly gain it back again. using these short sharp blasts im finding the transition between sitting and standing is getting smoother.

another thing i learnt this morning... relax when standing.

im getting there... slowly
 

Seamab

Senior Member
Location
Dollar
This also leads to me having to drop to an easier gear for a short spell while I recover.

Perhaps you don't think it is the case but you are putting out more power when standing up which is why you need the recovery. Probably you are putting out at least an extra 30% when you do this.

It is possible to stand up and not increase power (if you just want a change of position) but you have to feel like you are taking it really easy while standing up.

One way to improve is just keep doing what you are doing - set yourself a target of stand up for x secs, recover for y and repeat for as long as you can until you crest the hill. Give up when you can no longer stand for the set duration. Try again another day when you are rested.

Another way might be to select a harder gear than you normally use for the hill and stand up for the steepest sections then sit down for the easier sections.

This might not get you up the hill any faster initially though, as the periods of increased power will average out with the recovery periods. So to get the benefit you need to work on reducing the recovery time between intervals.
 

Garz

Squat Member
Location
Down
I used to suffer similar to this and it was down to not repeating climbs and specifically working on this area. At xmas last year when I bought a turbo to train during the horrid snow/ice I focussed on timing my out of the saddle efforts extending it on the next session. It was very helpful but needs maintaining im afraid.

The only time I think mixing sitting and standing is hard is when the climb is that steep that you cannot sit back down again.
 
OP
OP
L

leaner learner

New Member
Location
Stockport
Thanks for the responses guys.

Starting from the top, yes I am clipped in to the pedals. I do change up (usually only 1 gear at the moment lol) when I stand as I have tried to develop a high pedalling rate whether on the flat or hillls (thanx pete) but when I sit back down I usually have to go 1 lower that my initial gear whilst I recover a little.

I like your advice jigsore and will be trying that out. And zack, I will start to point those toes down when I get up from now on.

The diet thing is something I am already onto - lots of protein. I've always been slim and don't have much muscle mass but I think my legs must be getting stronger (although they don't look different) coz I definitely wouldn't have been able to get up these hills when I started :rolleyes: ! But I think you are right though jimbo - just not got it yet. Muuuust try hhhaaarrdderrr, muuusst get stroonnnggerrr!!!!!!!

And finally Garz - strangely I have just been eyeing up turbo trainers as an early xmas pressie for this very reason .......:biggrin:
 

abbie

New Member
I'm the opposite of this and my speed on the flat is pretty average, downhill I'm pretty cautious but uphill I can keep a good pace either seated or standing.

Yesterday my friend and I did a 36 mile group cycle offroad, lots of hills. To begin with lots of people were overtaking us, they were pelting past us down the hills and a few overtook us on the flat parts. Everytime we came to a hill though we sailed up and overtook them (many were walking their bikes up). Then they'd whizz past us on the next downhill and it carried on this way for ages until about 25 miles in when people seemed to tire and never caught us back up.

Afterwards in the pub a few blokes commented on our hill stamina which I never knew I had. My friend and I do spinning classes x3 per week so I can only guess that this has worked as neither of us were phased by hills yet we have both been cycling for less than six months. Spin classes tend to work out of the saddle loads so it must build up those muscles.
 

jimboalee

New Member
Location
Solihull
How many of you live in bungalows. Yes, well that's a shame because the next experiment is to time yourself climbing upstairs. You'll find its about 5 seconds to climb up 10 steps.
If while you climb up the stairs, you hold your clenched fists out in front of you, that's the action you should be emulating riding a bike up a hill.
You'll be interested to know that's 60 cadence. It wasn't so bad was it, and did it knacker you knees? I doubt it, stairs have been made like that since the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, and no-one's complained.
 

Telemark

Cycling is fun ...
Location
Edinburgh
+1 on what the others have said.

I think climbing out of the saddle involves your core muscles more than when staying in the saddle. They may be lagging behind the rest of your cycling muscles in strength/endurance, as you've only more recently started to work the core muscles harder ...
With some more practise they will catch up, but you could speed up the process by strengthening the core muscles through other exercise.

Have fun,

T
 
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