Thanks all - didn't think I'd see as many replies as there have been
Just on that particular point: did you drop your saddle height when initially moving the cleats backwards? The overall 'length' of your body, from the cleats via the saddle to the bars, is reduced by moving the cleats backwards, so you also need to reduce saddle height in order to reduce the distance from pedal to saddle to bars. It's only something like 5mm, but definitely necessary. (Speaking as someone who has their cleats quite close to mid-foot, using adaptor plates to facilitate that.)
I didn't; although perhaps I should have done.. didn't think that it'd make that much difference but perhaps I'm mistaken. Not sure that the issue I've found with my toes though..
having gone through this....
why the heck did you do this?
cleats - get them comfortable, then leave well alone!
Draw around them with a sharpie (other methods exist) to make sue replacement cleats go in same position.
.. because current thinking suggests that it's advantageous to have the cleats further back so I thought it was worth exploring this.
The cleats were pretty much as far forward as they'd go, while their original positions have been both marked and photographed so getting them back to where they were is no big deal
There's no reason to think that your cleat needs to be on the ball of your foot, the whole point of cycling shoes is to be stiff, provide a comfortable platform for your whole foot and avoid hotspots. You are not walking and shouldn't be flexing your foot much if at all.
2 obvious problems from your post:
1. You need to adjust your saddle forwards by the same amount you move your cleats back to maintain the same offset from your saddle to the bottom bracket. Apart from this, if you point your toes at all you've also made your legs effectively slightly shorter so you may need to change your height a little too.
Regardless, all of that should act to decrease the reach to your handlebars, not increase it. Moving cleats back helps with fit in almost every case, but you need to adjust the rest of your bike to match.
2. Those shoes are pretty flexy and yes, you will feel pressure from the cleat regardless of where you place it. I had a pair of the old lace-up XC5 for my winter and gravel bikes and recently cracked the carbon? plate on one side too which didn't help. There is no such issue on stiffer soled shoes regardless of cleat position.
I run my cleats slammed all the way back on all my shoes, SPD & SPD-SL alike (exact same position on each obviously) and find it far more stable. There should be no difference in performance unless your saddle is too high and you're pointing your toes to compensate. It does take some getting used to though.
I can't help with toe overlap, but it never comes up except when trying to u-turn after missing a turn.
Thanks - I'm not sure about saddle fore / aft position as the video I watched suggested that moving the feet forward would push you back on the saddle; and it definitely felt that this was the case when testing the initial position 10mm further rearward of where it was. Could be that I should have adjusted the height though and maybe the knee issue in the left leg is related to saddle height.
As both you and
@cougie uk suggest it may be that the shoes aren't stiff enough to prevent some concentration of pedalling load on the area of the foot that's directly above the cleat. I'm certainly not keen on the idea of replacing them and think my choice is limted anyway tbh, since I have fairly wide feet which is one reason I went with the XC5's due to their full length lacing.
It seems that most by default seem to run their cleats a lot more rearward; which makes me wonder why I seem to get on better with them so far forward..
Thanks all - didn't think I'd see as many replies as there have been
Just on that particular point: did you drop your saddle height when initially moving the cleats backwards? The overall 'length' of your body, from the cleats via the saddle to the bars, is reduced by moving the cleats backwards, so you also need to reduce saddle height in order to reduce the distance from pedal to saddle to bars. It's only something like 5mm, but definitely necessary. (Speaking as someone who has their cleats quite close to mid-foot, using adaptor plates to facilitate that.)
I didn't; although perhaps I should have done.. didn't think that it'd make that much difference but perhaps I'm mistaken. Not sure that the issue I've found with my toes though..
having gone through this....
why the heck did you do this?
cleats - get them comfortable, then leave well alone!
Draw around them with a sharpie (other methods exist) to make sue replacement cleats go in same position.
.. because current thinking suggests that it's advantageous to have the cleats further back so I thought it was worth exploring this.
The cleats were pretty much as far forward as they'd go, while their original positions have been both marked and photographed so getting them back to where they were is no big deal
There's no reason to think that your cleat needs to be on the ball of your foot, the whole point of cycling shoes is to be stiff, provide a comfortable platform for your whole foot and avoid hotspots. You are not walking and shouldn't be flexing your foot much if at all.
2 obvious problems from your post:
1. You need to adjust your saddle forwards by the same amount you move your cleats back to maintain the same offset from your saddle to the bottom bracket. Apart from this, if you point your toes at all you've also made your legs effectively slightly shorter so you may need to change your height a little too.
Regardless, all of that should act to decrease the reach to your handlebars, not increase it. Moving cleats back helps with fit in almost every case, but you need to adjust the rest of your bike to match.
2. Those shoes are pretty flexy and yes, you will feel pressure from the cleat regardless of where you place it. I had a pair of the old lace-up XC5 for my winter and gravel bikes and recently cracked the carbon? plate on one side too which didn't help. There is no such issue on stiffer soled shoes regardless of cleat position.
I run my cleats slammed all the way back on all my shoes, SPD & SPD-SL alike (exact same position on each obviously) and find it far more stable. There should be no difference in performance unless your saddle is too high and you're pointing your toes to compensate. It does take some getting used to though.
I can't help with toe overlap, but it never comes up except when trying to u-turn after missing a turn.
Thanks - I'm not sure about saddle fore / aft position as the video I watched suggested that moving the feet forward would push you back on the saddle; and it definitely felt that this was the case when testing the initial position 10mm further rearward of where it was. Could be that I should have adjusted the height though and maybe the knee issue in the left leg is related to saddle height.
As both you and
@cougie uk suggest it may be that the shoes aren't stiff enough to prevent some concentration of pedalling load on the area of the foot that's directly above the cleat. I'm certainly not keen on the idea of replacing them and think my choice is limted anyway tbh, since I have fairly wide feet which is one reason I went with the XC5's due to their full length lacing.
It seems that most by default seem to run their cleats a lot more rearward; which makes me wonder why I seem to get on better with them so far forward..
I run mine at the extreme of lateral placement - with the cleat putting the shoe as far out, away from the crank as possible. I have to do this because my feet naturally toe-out and I catch the crank arm with my heel if I try to move inwards. In terms of fore-and-aft, I have three pairs of Shimano shoes and they are all slightly different relative to the available range, but generally around the middle, tending to slightly in front of middle.
Thanks - I'm the same with the lateral position; both for the reason you describe as well as the fact that I tend to walk on the outsides of my feet, so pushing them outboard reduces the loading on the outsides, as well as allowing the legs to be a bit more upright and so reducing the liklihood of smacking the crossbar with my knees
.
