Claud Butler?

[Kinch10]

Firstly please excuse the home paint job; a moment of shed madness. I have now decided to have this frame sprayed by a professional and to restore it. The main problem is when I acquired the frame it had no decals or other identification.
From research I believe that it may be a 1975 Claud Butler as the serial number of 69242 is stamped on the frame below the bottom bracket and also on the forks. That number aligns with other posts on Claud Butler sites but I am struggling to identify a model or whether it may have been a shop build rather than a standard build.
The lugs I am fairly certain are Nervex, but there are two aspects that seem to be non-standard for CB. The first is the wrap over seat stays and the second is the rear brake cable hanger.
As I say I am interested in whether anyone can confirm it is a CB, what model it is, and any help as to what the original paintwork may have been.
Come on you anoraks; someone out there will know.

Many thanks,

Kinch10

 

[midlife]

Post it on the Claud Butler number thread on Retrobike, there's a few CB detective active on the thread.

 

[Drago]

The lugs look a little ornate to be a CB, so I think it might be Holdsworth of 60s or early 70s vintage, possibly a Cyclone - it's definitely a Holdsworth or a CB.

Holdsworth acquired Claud Butler in the 50's and the frames were made side by side, and could be very similar indeed, but I think those lugs make it a Holdsworth.

Either way, let us what you eventually find out.

BTW, the paint doesn't look bad at all.

 

[Drago]

Cancel cancel! I think may be a Claud Butler Avant Coureur Special, most like a 60's model from the Holdsworhy era judging by the rear central cable stop. The lugs are indeed a perfect match for that model.

 

[oldtel]

Hi, nice frame worth all this effort, but can I pose a question; What makes you think CB / Holdsworth, if it was, the frame number would be a shop build frame from 1970, peak of the Holdsworth Pro builds, during the start of Tommy Quicks time, which I think started in 1970, and looking at it, it does not shout Holdsworth shop, it has lots of frame fittings and a standard seat lug pinch bolt. Could I be so bold as to suggest it may be a 1969 Mercian ? Just a thought, Thanks Terry

 

[Drago]

OK, now I'm on a big pooter I can see better.

The frame number is from the period of CB 1967-1976 when they used sequential frame numbers starting at 50000 and ending just above 71000. As this is a 69xxx I would guess it is later, 1973-4ish. The under top tube cable guides put it in that era too. The seat pinch bolt lugs are standard CB fare of that era. I'm still not sure of the exact model though.

Are there any markings on the rear dropouts? There's quire often something stamped on the derailleur side dropout on a CB.

 

[Gunk]

 

[Drago]

That's brilliant @Gunk

 

[Kinch10]

The lugs look a little ornate to be a CB, so I think it might be Holdsworth of 60s or early 70s vintage, possibly a Cyclone - it's definitely a Holdsworth or a CB.

Holdsworth acquired Claud Butler in the 50's and the frames were made side by side, and could be very similar indeed, but I think those lugs make it a Holdsworth.

Either way, let us what you eventually find out.

BTW, the paint doesn't look bad at all.

Many thanks for the assistance. Like many things, it looks good from a distance, but not so hot close up. A bit like me really.

Kinch

 

[Kinch10]

Cancel cancel! I think may be a Claud Butler Avant Coureur Special, most like a 60's model from the Holdsworhy era judging by the rear central cable stop. The lugs are indeed a perfect match for that model.

Drago,
I will see if I can find some images. You may have saved me a lot of effort. I much appreciate your input.

Kinch

 

[Kinch10]

Hi, nice frame worth all this effort, but can I pose a question; What makes you think CB / Holdsworth, if it was, the frame number would be a shop build frame from 1970, peak of the Holdsworth Pro builds, during the start of Tommy Quicks time, which I think started in 1970, and looking at it, it does not shout Holdsworth shop, it has lots of frame fittings and a standard seat lug pinch bolt. Could I be so bold as to suggest it may be a 1969 Mercian ? Just a thought, Thanks Terry

Terry,

All suggestions greatly appreciated, hence the post. I will research Mercian too.
Many thanks for your help.

Kinch

 

[Kinch10]

OK, now I'm on a big pooter I can see better.

The frame number is from the period of CB 1967-1976 when they used sequential frame numbers starting at 50000 and ending just above 71000. As this is a 69xxx I would guess it is later, 1973-4ish. The under top tube cable guides put it in that era too. The seat pinch bolt lugs are standard CB fare of that era. I'm still not sure of the exact model though.

Are there any markings on the rear dropouts? There's quire often something stamped on the derailleur side dropout on a CB.

Drago,
I agree with your comments on the sequential numbering for CB, which is how I came to my conclusion in the first instance. I have looked for other markings on the frame, but can find none, nor on the rear derailleur.
It is just the wrap over seat stay and the cable bridge that don't seem to sit as standard for CB for that period.
Thanks again for your thoughts.

Kinch

 

[Kinch10]

View attachment 529917

Gunk,

Thanks for this. I think it's from the same site that I originally drew my own conclusions from. Just the oddities on the frame that make the matter more of a mystery.

Kinch