Changing a full drive system

[Dirtyhanz2]

Hi all after some advice
I have just got I think a late 70’s claud butler mixte 531 tubing
It’s got a 5 speed block 27 inch wheels
I would like to upgrade make it more usable
Would I be able to fit something like an mid 80’s to 90’s drive system LX XT would this be possible
Thanks for any advice

 

[Dirtyhanz2]

 

[Punkawallah]

It would depend on your pockets and ability - both to source parts and fit them?

 

[Dirtyhanz2]

It would depend on your pockets and ability - both to source parts and fit them?

I don’t mind spending the money my ability is a bit hit and miss but I would still rather do it myself

 

[Dogtrousers]

Short answer: Yes. I've done it. I don't think I'd necessarily do it again.

The main problem is the width of the hub. Older hubs with 5 speed freewheels are a bit narrower than modern hubs with freehubs. So if you want to put a modern wheel in there then you have to either "spring" it in - ie wrestle with the frame every time you take the wheel out or put it in (this involves much swearing), which I did for a while, or you have to "cold set" the frame, which is a fancy term for bending it, which I did in the end.

OK so now you've got a modern wheel in your frame. Maybe with an 8 speed 11-32 cassette on it. Great. Only problem is that probably you can't use the 11T sprocket because you've forced in a cassette that the frame was never designed for and there isn't room to use the little sprocket. Never mind, ignore the little one. It's now a 7 speed 12-32.

Ah, but you've put a modern 622mm wheel in. Maybe your old wheels were 27". Rats, the wheel is a bit smaller. So you may need special long drop brakes to work with the wheel.

Let's assume you're happy sticking with down-tube friction shifters (as I was). That means any potential problems to do with indexing don't arise. If you want indexed shifting then you will have a load of other niggly problems that I never had.

And so it goes. All sorts of little problems. You may not encounter all of the above. They can all be solved. But its a bit of a pain and as I got to the end of my project I was thinking "why did I bother?".

However, now all that's behind me I do have a nice bike (I must admit that it lives on my turbo these days)

 

[Dirtyhanz2]

Short answer: Yes. I've done it. I don't think I'd necessarily do it again.

The main problem is the width of the hub. Older hubs with 5 speed freewheels are a bit narrower than modern hubs with freehubs. So if you want to put a modern wheel in there then you have to either "spring" it in - ie wrestle with the frame every time you take the wheel out or put it in (this involves much swearing), which I did for a while, or you have to "cold set" the frame, which is a fancy term for bending it, which I did in the end.

OK so now you've got a modern wheel in your frame. Maybe with an 8 speed 11-32 cassette on it. Great. Only problem is that probably you can't use the 11T sprocket because you've forced in a cassette that the frame was never designed for and there isn't room to use the little sprocket. Never mind, ignore the little one. It's now a 7 speed 12-32.

Ah, but you've put a modern 622mm wheel in. Maybe your old wheels were 27". Rats, the wheel is a bit smaller. So you may need special long drop brakes to work with the wheel.

Let's assume you're happy sticking with down-tube friction shifters (as I was). That means any potential problems to do with indexing don't arise. If you want indexed shifting then you will have a load of other niggly problems that I never had.

And so it goes. All sorts of little problems. You may not encounter all of the above. They can all be solved. But its a bit of a pain and as I got to the end of my project I was thinking "why did I bother?".

However, now all that's behind me I do have a nice bike (I must admit that it lives on my turbo these days)
View attachment 727365

Lovely looking bike thank you for the advice
My thoughts are I am going stick with the 27 inch wheels stick with the 5 speed block just a new one and a new cain
Replace the old rear mex for a newer Shimano 105 or XT LX same with the front mec and gear leavers and stay friction
Change the Chainset

 

[Ajax Bay]

Worth swapping the 5sp block out for a 6sp (same width and no OLD issue) - the friction shifters will be fine.
A simple change of the chainset will give you an excellent range of gears (stick to a good big large ring as with a 13t or 14t you'll need it).
A little care needed to get a BB spindle the right length for the replacement chainset to keep a reasonable chain line.

 

[Dirtyhanz2]

Worth swapping the 5sp block out for a 6sp (same width and no OLD issue) - the friction shifters will be fine.
A simple change of the chainset will give you an excellent range of gears (stick to a good big large ring as with a 13t or 14t you'll need it).
A little care needed to get a BB spindle the right length for the replacement chainset to keep a reasonable chain line.

Thank you much appreciated

 

[midlife]

I always thought a 6 speed block was a bit wider than a 5 speed block as they use the same cog width and spacing.

BITD there was the "ultra six" which used a thinner chain, slimmer cogs and reduced spacing

Easy to spring the frame to the extra width if memory (from 45 odd years ago) serves.

 

[Ajax Bay]

I always thought a 6 speed block was a bit wider than a 5 speed block as they use the same cog width and spacing.
BITD there was the "ultra six" which used a thinner chain, slimmer cogs and reduced spacing
Easy to spring the frame to the extra width if memory (from 45 odd years ago) serves.

In rear dropouts with an OLD of 126mm (assumed for this Claud Butler late 70s mixte), there is space. Use a 6/7/8sp chain. Friction shifting: sprocket pitch matters not.

 

[wafter]

In rear dropouts with an OLD of 126mm (assumed for this Claud Butler late 70s mixte), there is space. Use a 6/7/8sp chain. Friction shifting: sprocket pitch matters not.

IIRC the OLD is more likely to be 120mm; I think that's what my 5sp Routier is.

 

[midlife]

In rear dropouts with an OLD of 126mm (assumed for this Claud Butler late 70s mixte), there is space. Use a 6/7/8sp chain. Friction shifting: sprocket pitch matters not.

I was commenting on the width of the block and not the OLD. As mentioned I’m sure the 6 speed is wider than a 5 speed block and not the same.

 

[raleighnut]

I've done quite a few HT2 cranks fit fine, I normally went for 105/XT level too