Changed rear wheel bearings, wheel far too stiff, help!

[oldgreyandslow]

I have eventually replaced the cartridge bearings on my Fulcrum Racing 5's. I used SKF 6001 2RS as advised on a previous post. Pulled the bearings in using a bolt, socket and suitably sized washers and nut etc. The tube that fits between the bearings inside the hub seemed a bit loose, but not excessively so. Fitted it all back together, very little pressure on the spindle nuts reassembled and its as stiff as a very stiff thing, loosened everything off, skewers barely pressing on it etc and its still very stiff.

I can only assume the bearings aren't lined up correctly, or am I missing something?

Any advice or suggestions welcome.

Ta

 

[gbb]

When you say stiff oldgrey ? how stiff ?
When mine were new, i could spin the wheel in the frame, it'd rotate it a few times then quickly slow to a stop.
There maybe special grease in them, it may be that when bearings are specified for bikes, they put lighter, free'r running grease in. 'Standard' bearings you buy afterwards may have heavier grease in them.

That said, loads of people buy standard bearings and don't notice a problem (standard bearings being made for electric motors etc where they're driven with a lot more power so it's not important)

One thing i noticed when i buggered one of mine up when fitting it was, put the wheel in the frame, lift the bike, spin the wheel and put your ear to the saddle or stem (depending on whether it's front or back)...and listen/feel whether you can hear/feel any knocking. If you can, then you've 'sprained' the bearing.
If you can't, its quiet, then you probably havn't done any damage.

Did you leave both seals on the bearing ? Each seal increases the friction...i removed the inner seal on mine.

When my wheels were new with original bearings, they were not free running, i guess that takes time to free up. Perhaps with heavier grease, it becomes more noticeable...assuming my theories right.

It's difficult to imagine you've fitted the bearings 'on the skew', they'd have been swines to get in and you'd have seen it when you started.

 

[oldgreyandslow]

Very stiff, I replaced the bearings again, as befpre the inner seals were removed, it spins OK, put the casette on and insert the wheel and its awful, very stiff, I think it must be an alignment issue but can't seem to see anything wrong.

Puzzled of Hampshire

Update: I have come to the conclusion that Fulcrum hubs are sheite, I have tried new bearings three times, I used SKF and NTN sealed bearings and removed the rubber seal on the inner side, they are pressed in perfectly, the spindle/axle bolts are just tight enough to prevent any sideways movement in the freehub. Holding the wheel by one spindle and spinning the wheel it does spin but not for long. when compared to the original Miche hub wheel that was original equipment it is much worse, this spins freely.

Put it in the bike and its so tight its ludicrous, the qr skewer is barley tight, if I actually rode it like this I'm certain the wheel would fall out.

Put the ambrossio rim/miche hub oem wheel back in and it spins freely.

So the only conclusion I can come to is that Fulcrum hubs are a bad design, so it looks like I have to junk a wheel that has only done about 5000 miles

 

[gbb]

If i get a chance, i'm going to strip mine out tomorrow and photograph the assembly sequence. No offence intended, but is it possible somethings not gone back in the right order ? mind, there's precious little in there to put back incorrectly.
Can't remember the sequence right now, but i do remember a thin washer to protect the bearings and a short tube that went in the freehub, over the axle.

 

[oldgreyandslow]

If i get a chance, i'm going to strip mine out tomorrow and photograph the assembly sequence. No offence intended, but is it possible somethings not gone back in the right order ? mind, there's precious little in there to put back incorrectly.
Can't remember the sequence right now, but i do remember a thin washer to protect the bearings and a short tube that went in the freehub, over the axle.

Ta, I am certain its back in right though. from free hub side its a short tube, then free hub with tube inside just the same height as the hub body, then the freehub into the wheel, on the other side its the washer over the bearing, then slightly longer tube and nut. With a dust cap/cover over the bearing/wheel hub.

 

[Tim Hall]

Found this video on Youtube. Don't know if it's any help.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvHCM4_J9k[/media]

 

[gbb]

At this point oldgrey, its worth re-checking what you've done. Again, no offence but working on the tools has shown me a few times in the past that you can get it wrong when re-assemlbing.
Stripped mine...the only thing i can see that'd go wrong is to get the spacers the wrong way...or as i found out when re-assembling, one thing i didnt see initially...once together, there was something holding it back from running free. The spoke protector wasn't sitting right and was rubbing against the cassette...slowing the wheel down, so just make sure your spoke protector (if you have one fitted) is sitting correctly.

The spacers..three in total, thinnest one sits outboard of the freehub. Longest one sits inboard the freehub, medium length one sits between the non drive bearing and the locking nut/sleeve.
Is it possible you've got the long and medium ones mixed up ? Highly unlikely, but...

As an afterthought, it'd be worth checking the bearings when everythings off, put your finger on the inner race each side and see if they seen to turn freely.

Hope that helps ?

 

[oldgreyandslow]

Thanks gbb

I have assembled as shown in your pic, there is no spoke protector.

One other point which may help in the diagnosis is when I try to turn the pedal backwards the casette sticks and the chain ships. So as far as I can tell the casette/free hub is way too tight.

With the old wheel in its fine.

 

[gbb]

Thanks gbb

I have assembled as shown in your pic, there is no spoke protector.

One other point which may help in the diagnosis is when I try to turn the pedal backwards the casette sticks and the chain ships. So as far as I can tell the casette/free hub is way too tight.

With the old wheel in its fine.

I know i'm still going over the same thing, but...if (the big IF) you put the medium length spacer in the freehub instead of the long one...could that cause the freehub to get tightened up against the hub itself, instead of (probably) having a minute clearance, allowing it to run free of the hub.

I know i'm going over the same thing, but even as i re-assembled mine...i got it the wrong way round

Otherwise, it might be worth checking the pawls are sat properly. First time i stripped mine, i slightly bent the spring holding them in and consequently one of the pawls sits slightly awry until i get it in the ratchets of the hub.
Apart from that...i'm running out of ideas !!!

 

[Alun]

Have the bearings been seated fully, as you say the inner spacer is loose? I tend to tap bearings in with a hammer and drift (carefully). I can then tell when the bearing is fully home, if it isn't then tightening up the spindle will put excess pressure on the bearing and cause stiffness and early failure. Hope you get it sorted!

 

[oldgreyandslow]

Further update

Its fitted exactly as shown in the photo above, hold the spindle and it turns OK

Install the wheel and try to turn the cranks its solid! Put pressure on and I can hear what I can only describe as a groaning sound, the locking nuts aren't too tight and the QR skewer is not too tight either.

I'm certain the freehub is installed corectly and the spockets on the freehub too, they go on exactly the same as they do on the old wheel.

It is a sod to refit the wheel though compared to the old one which slots in the dropouts very easily

I've run out of ideas


Fo sale one fulcrum racing 5 rear wheel, new bearings.................

 

[gbb]

Wish you were local mate (or me to you)..i'd come and have a look.
Logic tells me (through working in engineering) if something was working ok, you did something, then it doesnt work...it's invariably something you did, or didn't do (i know i'm stating the obvious )
The good news appears to be that while spinning it in your hand, it runs free.

Ok, thinking sideways now, there's not a lot of clearance between the cassette lockring and the dropout (on mine anyway). Look from above and make sure its not fouling the dropout, causing the drag

Is the chain running absolutely as it should, check its path right round the transmission. I say this because while i was on mine earlier, i noticed the chain had jumped over the tab between the two jockeywheel sideplates. Gawld knows how ...but perhaps its a transmission problem you're experiencing.

Edited further to ask...when the wheels out and spins freely , does the cassette ratchet freely ?

 

[oldgreyandslow]

cheers gbb

Looking at the cassette end there doesn't seem that much of the nut protruding from the lockring, but it is all in place as it should be, pushed right down so I assume its right, the lockring is tourqued to 50Nm as stamped on it, so unless the spindle has shrunk overnight its as it should be. Its the same cassette I use when I swap it with the wheel thats fine as well.

The chain runs fine, no difference to the position of it with the wheel in that works and the one that doesn't, its the same chain. mech etc.

When the wheels out the freewheel ratchets fine. Holding the wheel spindle locknuts in 2 17mm sockets and spin it and its fine, spins freely and the freehub ratchets OK it's only whem I install the casette and fit it in the dropouts that it becomes a problem.

It has to be an alignment issue but I can't for the life of me see what's changed.

 

[gbb]

If i was in my workshop, i'd do the following, its a lot of faff, but i never let anything beat me...

Check the skewer isn't bent.

Even check the axle isn't bent by placing a steel rule along its length. No, that's cobblers becase it runs ok in your hand.

Check i'd put the washer on the non drive side the right way round. No, same as above.

Highly unlikely...and yet i wonder ?, iv'e always noticed this with 10 speed cassettes..when you place the 12t on, it actually sits slightly proud of the freehub, then you have to hold it in place while tightening up the lockring. It then gets compressed into the grooves on the freehub. Occasionally you don't get it right and it ends up out of position.

Stupidly obvious, but i'd check the wheel alignment with everything, brake blocks in particular.

Ive had this before myself, the wheel locking up or stiff cranks, but never identified exactly why because ive had it all out, done this, done that and then it works.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

have you replaced the freewheel bearings and the wheel bearings? or just the wheel bearings?