Cannondale vs. Orbea for tall freak!

[nimchimpsky82]

So here's the next instalment of my bike buying saga

Having visited almost every major/recommended bike store in about a 50 mile radius from Liverpool (whaddayamean I'm obsessed?) I'm pretty convinced that the one I'd most like to deal with now and in future is actually right in Liverpool, a proper ole fashioned LBS.

A large shop this isn't however, and the two brands of road bike that are stocked are Cannondale and Orbea. I'd now like to put in an order for a CAAD 9 or an Aqua Marmolada. (I haven't written off the Cannondale SIX 13 either but the CAAD 9 seems slightly more suitable for my height.) I will try to negotiate an arrangement whereby I will have the option not to take the bike if we really can't get it to fit or if it simply feels all wrong, but I can't reasonably expect the owner to order 2 bikes.

Right, I'm 6'6" tall with almost 38" inseam (I wear 36" jeans), and having looked at the frame sizes and geo the CAAD 9 would seem like a no brainer, also given that I don't want a particularly aggressive frame. The largest frame size on the CAAD 9 is 63cm as against 60cm for the Orbea, effective tube length is 60cm as against 59cm, head tube length is 22cm as against 20.4cm. The wheelbase is the same at 101.3cm, but the standover height difference is considerable: 86.6cm against 83.5cm. I'm not sure how relevant that last measure is, but it seems to suggest a much bigger drop on the Orbea (?).

Now what I find very confusing is that several people here and on other forums have commented that Orbea frames are actually rather large -- a point that is also very clearly made by this US-based shop: http://www.wayfarerbike.com/id28.html If these guys are right, then a 60cm Orbea would be just perfect. But looking at the geo I find it very hard to understand how this could possibly be true The top tube does appear to slope a bit more than on the Cannondale, but is the effect really that big??

Any thoughts or ideas about this I would really appreciate! I do like the Cannondale, but don't wanna exclude Orbea just yet, as I prefer the idea of getting a Veloce set to the Shimano 105, and I also think the colour schemes on the Orbea are a bit cooler -- plus the company is a cooperative, which is surely A Good Thing.

 

[postman]

For us tall lads.And you are even bigger than me.

6'4" with 35" inside leg.
It is a nightmare finding a bike shop that stock the larger frame to try.

But last week i got chatting to a guy at the Otley cafe.Who was as tall as me and he let me sit on his 61cm Bianchi.

The bike was 5 years old but still looked wonderful.

And he stood back and said i looked ok on it.

As he rode away he also looked ok.He told me that a cycle shop in Castleford had set the bike up for him.Cost of bike £2,000.


Good luck on your journey to find the right bike.

And please tell us which one you buy.

 

[RedBike]

When it comes to fit for road bikes it's probably easier to ignore the seat tube size completely. Some manufacures measure to the center of the top tube, others measure to the top; then there's compact gemoetry! When comparing sizes I find it easier to just go by the 'effective' top tube size.

You need to ride both bikes before making your mind up. I'm not familiar with the Orbea but I expect it's much better equiped than the Cannondale. Cannondales are always relatively poorly spec'd. The money goes into the frames.

 

[nimchimpsky82]

Thanks for your quick response both

But last week i got chatting to a guy at the Otley cafe.Who was as tall as me and he let me sit on his 61cm Bianchi.

Inneresting you should mention that. I've looked at Bianchi as well, and posted a question about their frame size a coupla days ago http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34254. Someone responded that there's a forum member who is huge, and rides one too.

You need to ride both bikes before making your mind up.

I agree that this is of course preferable. But I'm not sure it would be fair to expect the shop to get both bikes in, and then probably be stuck with one... I've visited/phoned all major bike shops in the North West, some of which are national chains, and unfortunately they all tell me they don't stock the large sizes

I'm not familiar with the Orbea but I expect it's much better equiped than the Cannondale. Cannondales are always relatively poorly spec'd. The money goes into the frames.

Well, the Orbea has the slightly more expensive Veloce set as against the Cannondale's 105. But the Cannondale actually has a better saddle (Fizik Pave CX Sport vs. Orbea's Selle Italia X2 Pro) and more expensive wheels (Shimano SR10 vs. Campagnolo Khamsin). For the exact spec see: http://194.30.21.65/catalogo/ingles/interior.php?tipo=1&familia=3&gama=5&modelo=20 Perhaps the price of the Orbea can be partly explained by the lower production numbers?

 

[Scoosh]

Do any of the LBS you have visited do a bike fitting service ie where you sit on a jig and they set it up for your optimal riding position ?

I'm a (relatively ) small fella @ 6' 3" and 33" (trouser) IL and couldn't work things out for myself, so I took a trip to the well recommended Paul Hewitt in Leyland, nr Preston. A couple of hours later, I had a lovely diagram with the sizes I need.

He does Orbea too, though not Bianchi or Cannondale AFAIK.

HTH

 

[Chrisz]

I'm 6' 4" with a 34" inside leg. I recently bought an Orbea Onyx (largest off the peg size) and it fits me just perfectly - there's still plenty of room for extension on the seat tube and I have the handlebars mounted with no risers. It's a relatively aggressive setup I guess - without being too silly. However, it fits me fine.

 

[nimchimpsky82]

Do any of the LBS you have visited do a bike fitting service ie where you sit on a jig and they set it up for your optimal riding position ?

I'm a (relatively ) small fella @ 6' 3" and 33" (trouser) IL and couldn't work things out for myself, so I took a trip to the well recommended Paul Hewitt in Leyland, nr Preston. A couple of hours later, I had a lovely diagram with the sizes I need.

He does Orbea too, though not Bianchi or Cannondale AFAIK.

HTH

Thanks Scoosh, that's a really good idea. Hewitt have some interesting info on their website about the measuring process. Pity they don't list their range of bikes, but if they do Orbea then they'll certainly be able to advise on that, even if I were to decide to get it from my LBS.

Meanwhile, having studied the Cannondale information again I've realised that their frame size 63 acually features a measured CT of 61cm (see http://video.cannondale.com/images/09/CE/geo/ce_supersix_hi_mod_caad9.gif). (Why, then, they'd wanna label it '63' is frankly beyond me ) Now, using some secondary school maths, this, combined with the relatively gentle seat angle translates into an *effective* seat tube of 58cm. In the case of the Orbea (with the steeper angle) this is 57.4cm -- so the difference is much less than I originally thought. The effective height of the SIX 13 frame is even less: 56.3cm. The Bianchi C2C frame, finally, is 57.2cm.

I've used an online fit tool (https://www.wrenchscience.com/Login.aspx?ReturnUrl=/Secure/Fit/Height.aspx?stylecode=R&stylecode=R), which advises an effective CT of about 56cm, so if that's right, then all of these should be fine. My reach (calculated as 71.8cm) suggests that I should go for a 12-13cm stem, depending on whether the effective TT is 60 cm (CAAD 9), 59.5cm (SIX 13 / Bianchi), or 59cm (Orbea). Quite long, but not impossible to get.

Hmm, this has all got *rather* theoretical -- the inevitable consequence of working all day and not having had a chance yet to try any of this out in practice

 

[nimchimpsky82]

I'm 6' 4" with a 34" inside leg. I recently bought an Orbea Onyx (largest off the peg size) and it fits me just perfectly - there's still plenty of room for extension on the seat tube and I have the handlebars mounted with no risers. It's a relatively aggressive setup I guess - without being too silly. However, it fits me fine.

Thanks -- the Onyx appears to share its geo with the aluminium models, so that's helpful. Lovely bike! Awesome saddle as well Not exactly appropriate for a Dutchie like myself but I do recognise coolness when I see it

 

[garrilla]

Hmm, this has all got *rather* theoretical -- the inevitable consequence of working all day and not having had a chance yet to try any of this out in practice

now is the time to make probable choice (I think you want the Orbea) - go and see Arthur again at Picton, put down your deposit when the bike comes you know its going to be a reasoable fit,

when you have your first ride, you'll know it was time to make the decision

 

[bigtoe]

Hey im a fellow freak i have chainreaction brand x 62cm frame which i have more or less finished building up with a 5cm spacer and an inverted stem and a seat post that is still a few cms below the max it fits me nice im the same hight but 37in inside leg

 

[Chrisz]

Thanks -- the Onyx appears to share its geo with the aluminium models, so that's helpful. Lovely bike! Awesome saddle as well Not exactly appropriate for a Dutchie like myself but I do recognise coolness when I see it

LOL. The saddle is only temporary - I am doing a charity ride through France next week so wanted to 'fly the colours'

Once completed I'll be on the lookout for something a little more appropriate

 

[Scoosh]

Thanks Scoosh, that's a really good idea. Hewitt have some interesting info on their website about the measuring process. Pity they don't list their range of bikes, but if they do Orbea then they'll certainly be able to advise on that, even if I were to decide to get it from my LBS.

Oh yes he does

If you go to his Home page, you'll see the list of makes he deals with scrolling up the left hand side. Some nice bike porn there

What I really appreciated about the bike fit was having the time to talk to someone, who really knows his stuff, about what I was considering in bike terms. He put me on the jig, after ascertaining what my priorities are regarding speed, comfort, pedals etc. As he worked away, adjusting little bits here and there, I had opportunity to ask questions and attempt to remember his answers . If you purchase from him, he will offset the cost of the bikefit (£50) against the cost of frame/bike - and check fit again when you collect. He will give you a print out of your 'ideal frame size', which you can use to measure up the different frames, with the aid of a little bit of trigonomometry to get the seat-tube lengths for different seat-tube angles (sounds complicated but even I can just about understand it ).

He also told me that I am:" 5' 9/10" (170cm) but with 6' 3" (190cm) legs"

I am not buying from him but have used his diagram to send to my chosen supplier and it seems to be working out ..... I hope