can anyone help identify a bike frame

[Jay Bee]

I believe it to be British as the bottom bracket has left and right hand threads, the vertical chain stays join the top of the seat tube in the fast back stile. The drop outs are Campagnolo, the left hand side rear drop out has the number 6410 stamped into it. Could this be the year it was made? [ October 1964 ] No other numbers are on the frame. The forks are Zues 2ooo, and they have a Colnago club cut out on the top of the forks crown, this is also cut out on each side of the seat post lug. Along with the club shaped cut outs, the seat post lug has a heart shape cut out of it on the top of the cross bar section. The two head tube lugs on the tops also have the heart shape cut outs along with one under the down tube of the bottom bracket.
There is one cable stop for the rear derailleur gears brazed on bottle lugs and a approx. .30 x 5 mm piece brazed on to stop the gear leavers from moving. The rear brake cable must have had cable clips.

 

[midlife]

Pics would be nice . Zeus 2000 is later than 1964 as are the frame details. Roy Thame went for quite a bit of cloverleaf and the Strada Speciale from Mercian has cloverleaf style cutouts. The heart shape lug cutout is the factory lug.

 

[Jay Bee]

Hi Midlife thanks for your reply.
Do you know what year the Zeus 2000 forks were introduced?
I have taken the frame to Mercian workshop in Derby and they said that it wasn't one of theirs. The cut out on the Mercian frame is a clover just three joined up circles with no tail. At a recenibike jumble I attended a guy said that it may be a Martelly made in Belgium, as they put a club cut out on their frames. I checked this out to find that their club has a small circular cut out at the bottom of the tail as a Colnago has like a fish tail at the bottom. The frame has Sheffield Langsett decals on it. Living in Sheffield I know what a Langsett should look like and this does not look like one. However Langsett stopped making frames in 1963 and some else made them for a couple of years. I have a feeling that they would have kept the same design as I believe that they kept the same model names the professionals and the Conquest. I sent an email to a Mr. Stuart Smith a descendant of the Smith family that built the Langsett. He is also the author of a book about the history of the company but he hasn't replied. It is the decals that are confusing me, they are nothing like the ones on a Langsett. If you pick a frame up and decide to say that it was a Claud Butler or a Viking you would paint it. and then send away for some decals to stick on the frame. You wouldn't go to the trouble of designing a transfer then have it made to stick on that frame would you? If I put langsett on this frame people around here will say that's not a langsett. Unless like I say that on the off chance after 1963 some were made like this or doe's anyone recognise the frame

 

[midlife]

Shallow rake fork and details put it 70's, is there a single shifter boss on the right side. Looks like someone playing Italian in Britain. Roy Thame did it as did someone who's name escapes me.... Ah, remembered, Rondinella lol

 

[biggs682]

@Jay Bee that is a classy frame who ever made it
Zeus 2000 forks are pre allen key type caliper mounts so up to mid 80's and who is to say they were the original forks ? but then with the pantographing on the crown they must be .
Get it built and get riding it would be my advice

 

[Illaveago]

Hi and .

You have posed a good question there ! The lugs look interesting . I was wondering if anyone else used that style ?

 

[midlife]

Loads of 70's frames like that. Emperor Sport for example but not sure they did clover leaf design

 

[Cycleops]

That's a real conundrum Jay Bee. Wish you luck with it.
I suspect Mr Stuart Smith will bring the only one with the answer.

 

[Jay Bee]

Hi. Guys thanks for your comments and interest.
There are no gear leaver shifter bosses on the frame but it has a pip welded on top of the tube to stop the rap around leavers from moving. ( as photo) I have checked out some of Roy Thames bikes and some do have the clover leaf cut outs but they are the same as on the Mercian just 3 intersecting circles with no tail. I also checked the Rondinella and it doesn't appear to be one of theirs. I think this bike has at some point been used for racing there are no mudguard eyelets and the campag. Rear dropouts have been cut back to enable a fast wheel change. Another interesting feature it has a stainless steel strip (as photo) brazed on the cross bar this has a name printed on it. The name can't be made out but hear goes. if any of you worked at Bletchley park you may be able to help. The first letter could be a S or a C
S ? ? ? ? ? ? ERT
----------------------------
Where a question mark is there may not be a letter.
W

ell I do clutch at straw's

 

[Illaveago]

Hi. Guys thanks for your comments and interest.
There are no gear leaver shifter bosses on the frame but it has a pip welded on top of the tube to stop the rap around leavers from moving. ( as photo) I have checked out some of Roy Thames bikes and some do have the clover leaf cut outs but they are the same as on the Mercian just 3 intersecting circles with no tail. I also checked the Rondinella and it doesn't appear to be one of theirs. I think this bike has at some point been used for racing there are no mudguard eyelets and the campag. Rear dropouts have been cut back to enable a fast wheel change. Another interesting feature it has a stainless steel strip (as photo) brazed on the cross bar this has a name printed on it. The name can't be made out but hear goes. if any of you worked at Bletchley park you may be able to help. The first letter could be a S or a C
S ? ? ? ? ? ? ERT
----------------------------
Where a question mark is there may not be a letter.
W View attachment 468808 View attachment 468809 ell I do clutch at straw's

All you need to do now is to find a cycle maker encyclopedia and look through the index until you find a make that fits.

Sidandbert ?

 

[Jay Bee]

I love that from now on I am going to call it my sidandbert Bike

 

[midlife]

That long, thin band on shifter stop rings a bell, reminds me of a builder who emigrated to America.....

 

[biggs682]

That long, thin band on shifter stop rings a bell, reminds me of a builder who emigrated to America.....

Dave Moulton ?

 

[midlife]

Yep, Dave Moulton did emigrate to the USA but its a more obscure high class builder who's name escapes me.

 

[biggs682]

Yep, Dave Moulton did emigrate to the USA but its a more obscure high class builder who's name escapes me.

It's was the first one that came to mind