Can a folding bike climb?

[Kell]

GCN sticks hill climb specialist on a Brompton up Cheddar Gorge.

they don’t say, but it looks like a single speed. So he’s at an immediate disadvantage.

Still impressive though.


View: https://youtu.be/CCAwg9OMa84

 

[Sharky]

Too lazy to watch the video right now, but my comments ...

When out of the saddle, I put my weight well over the front wheel - don't think you can achieve the same position on the folder.
If sitting down and in an appropriate gear, the folder shouldn't be that different.

 

[berlinonaut]

they don’t say, but it looks like a single speed.

It is a 2-speed. So it is a bit of a trashy comparison: He lacks shorter gears, he lacks in-between gears and he spins out at the end of the race in the highest gear. This has absolutely nothing to do with riding a folding bike but with choosing a folder with an unnecessarily limited gear range for the challenge. Basically they cement the false prejucides towards folding bikes in this video.
What they also don't say (but you can derivate it):
• In comparison to his own hill racer the Brompton has about 5+kg of weight penalty
• it has a way more limited gearing top as well as bottom (but we don't know how much)
• on the 2-speed Brompton which is completely new to him he does ride the hill just 2mins slower than on his own hill racer

So not too bad I'd say - though the race and the comparison is misleading and of no use at all. It is just a spectacle for creating clicks, not for any serious knowledge gain.

 

[a.twiddler]

It is a 2-speed. So it is a bit of a trashy comparison: He lacks shorter gears, he lacks in-between gears and he spins out at the end of the race in the highest gear. This has absolutely nothing to do with riding a folding bike but with choosing a folder with an unnecessarily limited gear range for the challenge. Basically they cement the false prejucides towards folding bikes in this video.
What they also don't say (but you can derivate it):
• In comparison to his own hill racer the Brompton has about 5+kg of weight penalty
• it has a way more limited gearing top as well as bottom (but we don't know how much)
• on the 2-speed Brompton which is completely new to him he does ride the hill just 2mins slower than on his own hill racer

So not too bad I'd say - though the race and the comparison is misleading and of no use at all. It is just a spectacle for creating clicks, not for any serious knowledge gain.

Can a folder climb? of course it can. You have to bear in mind that you can't pull up on the bars, and it doesn't respond well to standing on the pedals and heaving on the bars either. I don't have a Brompton but I bought a budget folder a few years ago and adapted it with lower gearing to cope with route to work. I changed it from a 6 speed to a 7 speed with Megarange bottom sprocket. It's mostly fairly level, but has some short sharp climbs either side of the river which I had to cross in both directions.

You just need to adapt your technique. The rear triangle is the strongest part of the bike and so as long as you can discipline yourself to remaining in the saddle and using your lower body to propel yourself up the hilly bits it will transmit the power fine. You need to pedal smoothly even if you're not necessarily a spinner.
By all means lean forward over the bars to keep some weight over the front wheel on the steepest bits but until you reach a gradient that makes steering difficult, I find my folder climbs OK. If you've got the gears, you can climb almost anything on almost anything. Going downhill fast on those small wheels -now that's another matter!

This unexpectedly benefited me a few years later when I got into riding recumbents. The same old predjudice -folders can't climb, recumbents can't climb, (insert name here) can't climb! My original recumbent couldn't be more different from my folder. The folder perched you waay above the wheels, you might get a nose bleed just thinking about it, and the wheelbase looked ridiculously short, though that was just an illusion.
My LWB recumbent looks like it ate my folder for breakfast without noticing. Loong wheelbase, low seat, yet to get up hills here we are again. Can't use your body weight on the pedals, can't pull up on the bars. Just use your legs and the appropriate gearing. Somehow, it just does it.

When I do get out on the folder, it's always a pleasant surprise how nice, if slightly strange, it is to ride. It's not fast, being a bit low geared, but just climbs everything you put in front of it with no fuss.

 

[byegad]

My Dahon Speed-Pro, gearing 20-114" IIRC, quite happily tackled hills in the Weardale and Teesdale area without any real issues. You needed to be careful to keep some weight on the handlebars on the steeper, 1in6 a steeper, bits but it was very nearly as good as my similarly geared Thorn Club Tour.

 

[berlinonaut]

Can a folder climb? of course it can. You have to bear in mind that you can't pull up on the bars,

Why? I would not agree with that statement.

and it doesn't respond well to standing on the pedals and heaving on the bars either.

Why? I would not agree with that statement.

I don't have a Brompton but I bought a budget folder

Maybe this is the bit that's misleading you? Cheap folders often have a flimsy stem and some a weird geometry. With the Brompton I do have absolutely no issue with pulling on the bars, with standing on the pedals and other tings. If you out massive power onto the cranks you'll recognize that on the Brompton the main frame starts to work at the main frame hinge (as with many forders that do have a hinged main frame). This is however not a generic folder problem but one caused by the construction of some folders (same as with the flimsy stem on other folders). You should have in mind that i.e. these are folding bikes, too:

The Bike Friday Pocket Rocket (and it's siblings), the Airnimal Chameleon and Joey and the Berds Folder are just four examples of folders that ride like a "normal" bike. and they are fast, too. There are many many more like that. A folder does neither have to have small wheels nor has it to have a strange geometry nor has it to be slow or unstable.

 

[rogerzilla]

I've always found Bromptons to climb pretty well. Bar ends help a lot (on an S type). I've never had one with true low gears; I've been up Chinnor Hill a few times with a bottom gear of 52", and it was no worse than spinning up it on a touring bike.

 

[a.twiddler]

A folder is, by definition, a bike with a hinge in it. I only refer to my own experience with my particular folder and a Dahon which I owned side by side with it for a while. Perhaps a Dahon also counts as a "budget folder" if you have a Brompton? In fact the stem arrangement on my particular bike felt much more confidence inspiring than the one on the Dahon which on paper was the "better" bike. I was quite conflicted at one time -which one should I keep?

They were both nice bikes. Both aluminium framed, 20" wheels, the Dahon with a slightly more compact fold, this Viking with a nicer ride. The point I was trying to make is that a folder should be treated with a little more mechanical sympathy, perhaps, than a non folder. Compared with my other bikes, this one weighs virtually nothing, and I treat it with respect. I still get up the hills, and my "non Brompton" hasn't given any trouble to date.

I should also point out that the guy in the video was riding a Brompton, not a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket (or it's siblings), an Airnimal Chameleon or Joey or the Berds Folder. The majority of folding bikes are not represented by any of these bikes, though you only have to mention "folder" and the owners of Bromptons, particularly, fill these pages with their replies. It is good to have replies, but let me just put in a word for the apparently disparaged owners of "budget folders" whose experiences are just as valid as anyone else's. Yes! They can climb!

 

[berlinonaut]

A folder is, by definition, a bike with a hinge in it.

Jup. But not necessarily with a hinge in the main/top tube. Plus "folder" is a class of bikes which varies massively regarding their properties. Just because something is true for a Brompton it is not necessarily a property of all folding bikes and the same goes for a Dahon, a Birdy, a Bike Friday and any other folding bike.

I should also point out that the guy in the video was riding a Brompton, not a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket (or it's siblings), an Airnimal Chameleon or Joey or the Berds Folder.

That is totally true and exactly that is the reason why the video is misleading at best. It does not even represent all Bromptons (just the 2-speed), let alone all folders. So what they found out was not a generic "folding bikes behave like this and that".

you only have to mention "folder" and the owners of Bromptons, particularly, fill these pages with their replies. It is good to have replies, but let me just put in a word for the apparently disparaged owners of "budget folders" whose experiences are just as valid as anyone else's.

I do own Bromptons but also a couple of other folding bikes, including a Bike Friday, an Airnimal Joey and a Bernds beyond them and even three folding recumbents (one of which is a Brompton). All of them are different beasts with different up- and downsides, including the Brompton. So I'd guess you hear whatever you want to hear... No wonder that some people are talking about Bromptons in a thread that starts with a video, comparing a Brompton to a race bike...

 

[Blue Hills]

My Dahon Speed-Pro, gearing 20-114" IIRC, quite happily tackled hills in the Weardale and Teesdale area without any real issues. You needed to be careful to keep some weight on the handlebars on the steeper, 1in6 a steeper, bits but it was very nearly as good as my similarly geared Thorn Club Tour.

which version is that? How many speeds?
Mine is the 3x7 - pic below.
I've also cycled the 5 speed brommie to that place.
Both no problems at all.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

On rides with my local ctc I will often out climb others. On my 3 speed Brompton against geared road bikes. I think a lot of them change into an easy gear whilst on my Brompton I stand up and get on with it. Standing up and heaving on the bars from side to side us very much a part of Brompton climbing technique

 

[roley poley]

any bike will"climb" you just need to lower the gearing .. as I have done with an extra smaller chain wheel bolted in the mix

 

[a.twiddler]

Jup. But not necessarily with a hinge in the main/top tube. Plus "folder" is a class of bikes which varies massively regarding their properties. Just because something is true for a Brompton it is not necessarily a property of all folding bikes and the same goes for a Dahon, a Birdy, a Bike Friday and any other folding bike.

That is totally true and exactly that is the reason why the video is misleading at best. It does not even represent all Bromptons (just the 2-speed), let alone all folders. So what they found out was not a generic "folding bikes behave like this and that".

I do own Bromptons but also a couple of other folding bikes, including a Bike Friday, an Airnimal Joey and a Bernds beyond them and even three folding recumbents (one of which is a Brompton). All of them are different beasts with different up- and downsides, including the Brompton. So I'd guess you hear whatever you want to hear... No wonder that some people are talking about Bromptons in a thread that starts with a video, comparing a Brompton to a race bike...

Well, I'm glad we can both agree that there are folders, and there are folders.

 

[berlinonaut]

Well, I'm glad we can both agree that there are folders, and there are folders.

From what I read in your first post you seemed to be the opposite opinion: That all folders would be equal.

Can a folder climb? of course it can. You have to bear in mind that you can't pull up on the bars, and it doesn't respond well to standing on the pedals and heaving on the bars either.

I told you that my experience is different, that not all folders are equal and asked you how you come to your statement. I got no answer but you immediately kind of freaked out, feeling disrespected for owning a cheap folder. No idea how you got onto that route. I would still be interested what made you make your first statement as my experience is still different and now, that you agree that not all folders are equal I am wondering even more about your generalization about how folders would behave.

 

[a.twiddler]

As i said earlier," Well, I'm glad we can both agree that there are folders, and there are folders." . You have expressed your opinion, which I don't necessarily disagree with, as I haven't had the opportunity to ride any of the bikes you mention, and take your word for it. I have expressed my opinion based on my experience, and you have disagreed with that. That's your prerogative. End of.

Looking at your previous I post see that you appear to be being deliberately provocative -"freaked out", "disrespected for owning a cheap folder" but I will disregard that. No more, please.