Campag 9 speed

[Scilly Suffolk]

I've been given a Veloce 9 speed rear derailleur (by a stranger no less).

As well as a suitable chain and cassette will my 8 speed crankset and front derailleur need replacing?

Am I correct in thinking that 8/9 & 10 speed cassettes all fit on the same width hub? If so I'd have thought that the front derailleur and crankset would all cope, however I find them advertised as 9/10 speed compatible.

 

[ColinJ]

Am I correct in thinking that 8/9 & 10 speed cassettes all fit on the same width hub?

8 speed uses a different spline pattern to 9/10, so no!

 

[accountantpete]

If you have 8spd shifters I would have a google around about whether the 9spd rear mech will be compatible (strictly it won't but you may be able to make it work).

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

8 speed uses a different spline pattern to 9/10, so no!

OK so the splines are different; do you know if the hubs are the same width? If they are then the front derailleur and crankset should work.

If you have 8spd shifters I would have a google around about whether the 9spd rear mech will be compatible (strictly it won't but you may be able to make it work).

Downtube shifters so not a problem as such, however they are currently indexed six speed, so I'm after some unindexed ones.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

OK so the splines are different; do you know if the hubs are the same width? If they are then the front derailleur and crankset should work.

Downtube shifters so not a problem as such, however they are currently indexed six speed, so I'm after some unindexed ones.

All road 8 speed have 130mm rear hubs just like 9/10/11. I use a vintage 5 speed double chainset with a 9 speed chain and cassette with zero issue. ALL multispeed chains can fall and jam between double/triple chainrings on chainsets, but that doesn't mean it will happen.

Many if not most indexed downtube shifters can be set to friction shift. Have you looked?

How can the 6 speed indexed shifter index across all the cogs of your 8 speed cassette currently? You don't need to change chain to use the 9 speed rear mech if you are not changing the hub/cassette.

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

Thanks, that was what I was getting at.

The shifters are budget Sachs-Huret and are index only. I hope that the bosses are standard, as a pair of seven speed Synchro shifters didn't fit: I couldn't tighten up the mounting screw enough to hold the lever against the frame.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Just to be sure we are on the same page, is the 8 speed cassette Shimano or Campag splined? Shimano 8 hub is no different to 9/10.

Do you have a pic of the shifter bosses?

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

I've got both: a Shimano 8 and a Campag 8, so I can stick a Campag 9 on the Shimano.

Couple of pictures of the boss, but my phone is pretty poor. Are you looking for anything particular? The left hand shifter fits fine, it's just the right.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

I've got both: a Shimano 8 and a Campag 8, so I can stick a Campag 9 on the Shimano.

Couple of pictures of the boss, but my phone is pretty poor. Are you looking for anything particular? The left hand shifter fits fine, it's just the right.

No Campag and Shimano cassettes are never compatible/interchangeable. You can stick a 8, 9 or 10 speed Shimano cassette on any modern 8, 9 or 10 speed Shimano hub. You can not stick a Campag 9, 10 or 11 speed Campag cassette on a Campag 8 speed hub.

It is impossible to see clearly from the photo, with vintage stuff there were indeed all sorts but it doesn't look a million miles from the "standard" Shimano/Campag one attached below or does it? If it looks like the one in the photo at the bottom then you will have to stick with vintage French shifters I am afraid. One other potential issue indicated by your Huret shifter, being French, is some as late as 80's need different threads which the typical Shimano/Campag bolts won't fit (but you might be able to use existing bolts). Is the frame French too? Separately can you work out, since left side fits the right side doesn't, what is causing the problem on the right?

If indexing is not important to you it makes no difference which wheel you use except you could have more speeds if you want with the Shimano wheel by changing cassette/chain. If indexing is important to you and bosses are "modern" conceivably a Shimano 6/7 speed downtube indexed shifter will index 6/7 of any of the adjacent sprockets of a Shimano 8/9 speed cassette* respectively on your Shimano wheel (see pink boxes in the 3rd table here) with your "new" Campag rear mech. If it looks/sounds confusing, it is.

* if I do this myself I would rearrange the sprockets

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

Many thanks for the detailed reply.

No Campag and Shimano cassettes are never compatible/interchangeable. You can stick a 8, 9 or 10 speed Shimano cassette on any modern 8, 9 or 10 speed Shimano hub. You can not stick a Campag 9, 10 or 11 speed Campag cassette on a Campag 8 speed hub.
I'm with you: Shimano hubs use the same splines across 8, 9 & 10; Campag 8 speed hubs are different from 9, 10 & 11 speed hubs.

It is impossible to see clearly from the photo, with vintage stuff there were indeed all sorts but it doesn't look a million miles from the "standard" Shimano/Campag one attached below or does it? If it looks like the one in the photo at the bottom then you will have to stick with vintage French shifters I am afraid.
Yes, it does look like the one in the photo, in that it doesn't have any "flats" on the sides (which the boss in the diagram does. I'm after a pair of Simplex LJ shifters, so I'm hopeful they will fit.

One other potential issue indicated by your Huret shifter, being French, is some as late as 80's need different threads which the typical Shimano/Campag bolts won't fit (but you might be able to use existing bolts). Is the frame French too? Separately can you work out, since left side fits the right side doesn't, what is causing the problem on the right?
It's a 1989 Peugeot but the threads don't appear to be the problem, as (without the lever) I can screw the bolt all the way in. I now think the problem is the lack of flats on the boss, which mean the lever doesn't sit far enough down the boss.

If indexing is not important to you it makes no difference which wheel you use except you could have more speeds if you want with the Shimano wheel by changing cassette/chain. If indexing is important to you and bosses are "modern" conceivably a Shimano 6/7 speed downtube indexed shifter will index 6/7 of any of the adjacent sprockets of a Shimano 8/9 speed cassette* respectively on your Shimano wheel (see pink boxes in the 3rd table here) with your "new" Campag rear mech. If it looks/sounds confusing, it is.

* if I do this myself I would rearrange the sprockets
I'm not bothered about indexing and will be using the Shimano wheel on the Pug and the 8 speed Campag on the TT bike I'm building up. I'll put my "new" 9 speed derailleur to one side until I can source a 9 speed hub: probably best to get what I have running properly, before tackling a new project!

Thanks again for your time, trouble and perseverance.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Many thanks for the detailed reply.

I'm after a pair of Simplex LJ shifters, so I'm hopeful they will fit.

Thanks again for your time, trouble and perseverance.

You're welcome. Simplex also made them for other brands, some are real classics.

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

I have a pair of "coke spoons": not retrofriction but on a single mount for a centrally located boss.

I was aware of Spidel, but didn't realise they made them for Gipiemme and Mavic: very interesting.

I was just after the teardrop shaped version, but might widen my search now in search of a bargain, or just to collect the set...