Brakes

[martint235]

Simple question with a simple answer hopefully. Brakes on the new bike are spongy to say the least so the first thing is to swap the blocks out to Koolstop. But with Xmas coming up what next? I've got my eye on some Cane Creek bar end levers and also 105 calipers. Which is going to give me the biggest improvement in stopping?

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Good quality outer's. Certain brands tend to compress thus giving spongy feeling.

 

[martint235]

Good quality outer's. Certain brands tend to compress thus giving spongy feeling.

Ok. I forgot to mention current brakes and calipers are Z-Star which I have a feeling aren't really seen much in the pro peloton.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Ahh right, I misread your op. Cane creeks, 105's and shimano cables with clean debris free rims should be about as good as rim brakes get. IMO.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Assuming this is for your fixie with bullhorns, just check that your not reaching too far for the bar ends. I put some on my fixie once and it was too much of a stretch in traffic.

 

[martint235]

Assuming this is for your fixie with bullhorns, just check that your not reaching too far for the bar ends. I put some on my fixie once and it was too much of a stretch in traffic.

They are. I'm used to riding on the hoods on a road bike which would be a similar position I think.

The question is which to do first: calipers or levers? Or now you've added it outers?

I may take the decision to scrap the old Giant road bike and nick the Shimano calipers off that.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Calipers, ime the cheaper ones tend to flex, but I'm heavy.

 

[ianrauk]

They are. I'm used to riding on the hoods on a road bike which would be a similar position I think.

The question is which to do first: calipers or levers? Or now you've added it outers?

I may take the decision to scrap the old Giant road bike and nick the Shimano calipers off that.

The Giant needs to be laid to rest... so do it.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

The question is which to do first: calipers or levers? Or now you've added it outers?

Outers. If that doesn't help braking then followed by better pads.

For sponginess at the lever there are two main likely reasons, wrong levers and poor outers. However it is not possible to get sponginess from using wrong lever type if you have caliper brakes, you can only get it with brakes having high mechanical advantage (such as v brakes). Personally I don't subscribe to "flex" in levers or calipers generally - have you ever tried bending one? If flex is referring to poor tolerance in pivots and bushings then it should be observable when used.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Outers. If that doesn't help braking then followed by better pads.

For sponginess at the lever there are two main likely reasons, wrong levers and poor outers. However it is not possible to get sponginess from using wrong lever type if you have caliper brakes, you can only get it with brakes having high mechanical advantage (such as v brakes). Personally I don't subscribe to "flex" in levers or calipers generally - have you ever tried bending one? If flex is referring to poor tolerance in pivots and bushings then it should be observable when used.

Ha, you've never tried Brompton callipers then? I can make them flex no problems, but I'm heavy. The sponginess can be due to the calliper pivots twisting due to either crappy quality or being worn out.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Ha, you've never tried Brompton callipers then? I can make them flex no problems, but I'm heavy. The sponginess can be due to the calliper pivots twisting due to either crappy quality or being worn out.

I suspect we are talking about semantics. As I mentioned poor (i.e. not adequately close) tolerance in brake pivots and bushings can be a possible (and easily observable) problem, and for Brompton calipers even when new this is perhaps a demo of what you meant, but it is not really due to flex (of the forged alloy arms e.g.) and certainly has nothing to do with how heavy or strong one is - he could show the play easily with the tips of his fingers!

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

I was simply referring to sponginess at the lever. Whatever causes it at the calliper is irrelevant, as I said ime cheaper callipers can equal sponginess.

 

[martint235]

The Giant needs to be laid to rest... so do it.

It'll be a turning point though. Admittedly most of what's on it is way past it's sell by date (rear wheel is new though so will be kept as a spare for Lelly).

If anyone wants a Giant frame, let me know.

 

[Broadside]

My money is on the levers being the weak link. I took some Axis calipers (new on my Specialized Tarmac earlier this year, which had a good sharp feel) and replaced them with 105 calipers, not much difference but my bike now has a nice matching group set. I put the Axis calipers on to my wifes bike which has Shimano 2300 shifters, and the brakes are spongey. Pretty handy for her weaker hands so she is happy, but I think the Super SLR design of the higher end Shimano shifters (Tiagra and above) makes a big difference, they make any caliper feel sharper. Why not try connecting the brake cable from Lelly on to the new fixie, it would prove it beyond doubt and all you need to do is put the bikes side by side and move one cable over.

 

[fossyant]

You don't need to go for 105 as Shimano do some cracking non group set calipers in the R450 and R650. As mentioned, decent cables and pads first. See how these go.