Brake Dilema?

[AlanW]

So in my quest for a new titanium frame, the choice has finally been narrowed down to the Engima Etape. But now I need to decide on hydraulic on normal caliper brakes?

First let me start that I can see the merits for going down the hydraulic brake route for a commuting or winter bike, I cycle circa 15k miles per year and I will wear a set of rims out in one winter, so hydraulic brakes makes every sense. But this bike isnt going to be a everyday or winter bike, although at some point "maybe" it might. Its prime use will be for long rides and audax events, and maybe for long weekend rides with one or two panniers.

The first major negative is the cost, a decent set of disc specific wheels is gonna be at least £600+, then the price of the hydraulic shifters and hydraulic calipers so another £500, plus discs for the wheels add another £40. Consequently thats just added a huge chunk of money to the build cost now?

Then we have the routing for the rear hydrualic pipe on the Etape, in my world of OCD it looks blooming horrible and proper untidy as it goes down the underside of the frame under the bottom bracket and crosses over the front mech gear cable. It would be much better if it went down inside the frame but that brings up other issues then, assuming that it was possible of course?

Which leads me to possible breakdowns out on the road. For example, a snapped brake cable can be replaced in minutes, a reputured hydraulic brake hose would be a different story. Although to be fair I expect the chances of this happening must be pretty remote?

The other point, and this is the one that is really clouding my judgement is that of sqealing discs due to contamination from what ever source. From time to time I have this problem with the discs on my MTB and it drives me nuts. I have also heard the racket from other peoples disc equipped bikes on club rides and the constant noise under braking, it would drive me bananas!!!

The other factor, if I went down the hydraulic route is that I would only have one set of wheels, albiet good quaility lightweight wheels.

If on the otherhand I went down the normal caliper brake calipers, I have several sets of wheels that could be interchanged between all my bikes. So for example if I decided to do a weekend ride, I could simply drop my "touring" wheels into the Etape and of we go, happy days.

So I guess from writing this thread it looks like I am against hydraulic brakes, so perhaps I have answered my own question??

But it would be interesting to hear from others that have made the switch to hydraulic brakes, was it a good move or have you regretted it?

 

[Venod]

The first major negative is the cost, a decent set of disc specific wheels is gonna be at least £600

I have just built some disc wheels with Stans Grail tubeless ready rims which I picked up for £40 each, some hubs from Taiwain same as Novotech £65 pair, Sapim DB spokes £26, even with some expensive hubs they would have come in at a lot less than £600.

I have stopped using hydraulic brakes even on the MTB, with the proper cables and when they are setup right I am happy with the performance, you can use standard brifters thus saving cash, if your happy with 10 speed you save even more.

Got to agree with the noise aspect it can be annoying.

 

[boydj]

I had good disc wheels built for less than £400 - Hope Hubs, Archetype rims and stainless d/b spokes, so cost is less of an issue than you maybe think.

However, I have to agree about the noise problem, which was the main reason for giving up on that bike. I would, though, consider a new road bike with one of the latest Shimano disc groupsets since the technology has moved on in the last couple of years.

 

[jayonabike]

My mate bought a bike with disc brakes and has had loads of trouble with them. Brakes squealing, not releasing properly, sticking etc. It's been back to the shop twice. He's replaced discs, pads, inner and outer cables and still is having trouble with them. He told me he wishes he hadn't bothered and bought calipers.

It's certainly put me off disc brakes.

 

[fossyant]

Got cable pull discs on the kids bikes and SRAM Guide RS on my MTB, no problems. I also don't have issues with the rim brakes either on my road bikes !

MTB disc systems are quite cheap, shame it's not replicated to road yet.

 

[jowwy]

Got two road disc bikes. One titanium, one carbon......they have zero squeal issues and are both trp spyres cable operated.

 

[ufkacbln]

I had Magura HS33 rim brakes on the Hurricane and discs on the Street Machine. In both cases I have had a damaged hydraulic pipe and the problems of getting a repair in remote areas.

I now prefer and use cable discs throughout my fleet (Avid BB7s) and personally would not change back. They have as much sensitivity, feel and stopping power as a hydraulic system, but are totally serviceable on the fly.

 

[outlash]

Surely your issue with the initial cost would be eventually offset by not needing to buy new rims every spring? What about cable discs? Not so expensive.

 

[ianrauk]

You can get decent, lightweight, hand made disc brake wheels for around £300.

 

[ianrauk]

..another one here who has never had a squeal problem with disc brakes (BB7's)

 

[die_aufopferung]

So in my quest for a new titanium frame, the choice has finally been narrowed down to the Engima Etape. But now I need to decide on hydraulic on normal caliper brakes?....would be interesting to hear from others that have made the switch to hydraulic brakes, was it a good move or have you regretted it?

I have never made the switch to hydraulic brakes, and never will unless they become the only brakes available. But I'm going to respond to this despite my lack of personal ownership of hydro anyway because although I don't own them myself, I do work for a shop that sells bikes and also gets a lot of people bringing their bikes in for repair and we get a slow but steady trickle of problems with all makes and models of hydro disc brakes.

As the sales pitch goes: When they're in perfect working order and everything's good, hydros are the best braking system you can get. They have all the regular bonuses of mechanical disc brakes but are also self-adjusting, require virtually no maintenance, and theoretically will last pretty much forever with only changes required to replace worn brake pads and rotors.

In reality however: All the above is only true if you're lucky. If you're unlucky you'll get a combination of piston lock, hydraulic oil expansion, and air bubbles in the system, any of which is an absolute pain in the arse to deal with. They're either perfect to set up or absolute pigs, they're either 100% reliable or plagued with problems, and it appears to be completely random.

Just today I had a customer come in - he and his wife have identical bikes and 3 out of 4 of the brakes work absolutely perfectly. His bike's rear brakes however are constantly messing up and requiring work. 4 of exactly the same calipers, pads, oils, and levers, both used at the same time and stored in identical conditions and yet one has a problem when the other three don't. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and yet it's far more common than hydo brake lovers would admit.

I will stress that the above is rare - for every set of hydro brakes that are gremlin magnets, there are thousands that work perfectly - and although it's an obvious and logical concern, I've never heard of anyone snapping a hydraulic hose. But mechanicals always work, can be fixed by anyone with a hex key and a cable that costs a few quid (unlike hydros), and the actual "maintenance" of mechanical discs is massively overstated - if you can adjust a set of calipers, you can adjust mechanicals.

TL: DR: Disc brakes are fantastic. Hydraulic systems themselves though are hit and miss.

 

[Banjo]

Cable operated discs have given me all the stopping power needed on 2 disc road bikes so far. not had any noise or reliability problems.

 

[AlanW]

I have looked at cable operated discs, but decided that if I go down the disc route, then it would have to be hydraulic but I have no logical reason to say why!!

Plus, other than the very rare occasion in a massive downpour, I have never felt that my conventional cable caliper brakes have every lacked any stopping power and certainly never in the dry on any long decent either.

Wearing rims out on this particular bike is not an issue, I have a "work" bike that does the lions share of my annual mileage. But as a counter argument to buying discs brakes for every day usage, you can buy a lot of replacement rims (hand built wheels) for the cost to move over to discs, cable or hydraulic.

I also tend to swap wheels around from bike to bike depending on what event I'm riding on what bike, all my bikes have 11 speed group sets which makes life easier. So for a fast club ride/training bash it might be deep section Cosmics, audax events/weekend rides might be Ultegra/Open Pro hand built and anything else might be Ultegra 6800 OE wheels.

I know that if I go for normal brakes I will not have any problems with squealing. With discs however, its fair to say that at some point they will, and its at that point that I will wish that I would have gone with the conventional brakes.

I've ridden my MTB with a XTR disc set up and sintered pads for a good number of years and up till fairly recently I've not had a problem, other than in the wet when they make a right racket?? I've tried several different types of material pads and replaced the discs, and realigned (several times in fact) the calipers against the disc and despite bedding the pads in as you should, it all works fine for a few miles then back it comes, and it drives me mad. In comparison to my road bikes, I only ride a few hundred miles a year on the MTB, (waste of time having it if I'm honest as it doesn't get used but that's another story) but I shudder to think what I'd be like if it was doing this on my road bike everyday and that's the bit that is making me think long and hard before making the change.

So those that have not experienced any such noise related issues, what sort of annual mileage are you doing?

 

[ianrauk]

You've obviously already made your mind up that you don't want discs. Well in that case go down the rim brake route then. There really is no need to keep justifying to yourself (and us) the various reasons why you don't like or really want them.

As to the mileage, my current disc braked road bike (Pinnancle Pyrolite with BB7's) has done 17,500+ miles in just over 2 years.

 

[Andrew_P]

Just from a personal perspective Shimano BR-RS765 Hydraulics have been fantastic. Self adjusted right down to the last bit of pad, completely without any servicing from me, no rub, no noise. 5 Mins to replace the pads and still going well. That's 2500 maintenance free solid braking though 4 months of bleak winter. In that time I would have cleared at least 4/5 sets of brake blocks at best, and done a rear rim, at least. Plus been constantly adjusting them to get the right mix between rim flex rub and good braking. Broke a spoke and still carried on without any real problems other than in my mind. Of course mine is commuting where as your is destined for social and pleasure but either way based on my current experience I would always opt for a disc vs rim set up.