Both to blame?

[PoliceMadAd]

I had quite a near miss earlier, possibly the closest i've been to coming off via another road user. I can't really work out who was at fault though. So i'd like your opinions.

Basically, i was cycling along a cycle path next to a road. Ahead of me was the entrance to a side road. A van came alongside me, and as i approached the side road, i checked out the van. No indicator. I should've realised by his slowish speed what he intended to do, but it didn't click in my head. Anyway, i proceed to cross the side road, only to check again, and find the van turning in. We stopped with a foot between us, and i shouted at the driver about not signalling. He put his hand up to say sorry, and we left it at that. Now i know he took blame, but who was at fault. Also, i guess he somehow managed to miss me cycling alongside in broad daylight in my fluores jacket.

WVM eh! (To even it out, a WVM did do a fantastic OT 15mins later)

 

[xpc316e]

I reckon that you share the blame, but ultimately blame is of no consequence. When you are being loaded into the ambulance with a smashed leg, you will not be thinking, 'Well, at least I wasn't to blame.' We all need to do whatever we can to reduce our risk, rather than seek to apportion blame.

 

[DiddlyDodds]

Why are you looking for blame.
It was a missunderstanding , he said sorry to be polite and that was it.

 

[DiddlyDodds]

It does remind me though of when you are at a junction of a side road awaiting to pull out and a car is approching, and you wait for it to pass but instead of passing it turns in with no indicator and drives past you as iof you dont exist, or you are approching a narrow gap and politley pull to one side to let the oncoming driver through and they drive through and pass you looking straight ahead , not saying thank you or even registering your existance.
This is the same as you discribe above , van driving along in his own little world and not even noticing you were going to get to the side road same time as him.

 

[upsidedown]

Not that it matters now, but you did the equivalent of stepping off the kerb without looking.

 

[Banjo]

This is one reason why cyclepaths arent as safe as you think.

Its allways dodgy being on the left of any vehicle approaching a junction but especially vans or HGVs that have limited vision.

Van driver was in wrong for not indicating unless he was in a dedicated left turn lane but you have a lot more at stake than he does so should be ultra carefull of vehicles turning left if you are to the left of them.

 

[John the Monkey]

Highway Code Rule 206?

206 Drive carefully and slowly when

...

• needing to cross a pavement or cycle track; for example, to reach or leave a driveway. Give way to pedestrians and cyclists on the pavement
• turning at road junctions; give way to pedestrians who are already crossing the road into which you are turning

Strictly speaking, he's in the wrong - not giving way to pedestrians particularly annoys me[1], for the reasons Paul Gannon outlines in this piece;
http://camdencyclist...estrianpriority (although the applicable rule is now 170, not 108).

The moral of the story is that you can't expect drivers to know the highway code, to act on it, to observe the traffic around them, or to signal, despite the vastly greater potential for harm that their vehicles pose to others. Watch their road position, and ride defensively, especially where junctions cross cyclepaths.

[1] Especially as some cyclists do it too. The buggers.

 

[Alien8]

Assuming there were no markings on the cycle-path to tell you to give-way then, as JTM points out, the vehicle crossing the cycle-path should give-way. But, if you can, stick to the road - it's safer for all.

 

[snailracer]

Highway Code Rule 206?

206 Drive carefully and slowly when

...

• needing to cross a pavement or cycle track; for example, to reach or leave a driveway. Give way to pedestrians and cyclists on the pavement
• turning at road junctions; give way to pedestrians who are already crossing the road into which you are turning

Strictly speaking, he's in the wrong...

Disagree. My reading of rule 206 is that cars only give way to pedestrians (not bikes) at a side road. Cars give way to peds AND cyclists on the pavement only at a driveway. As the OP was crossing a side road, not a driveway, he would shoulder most of the blame .

 

[John the Monkey]

Disagree. My reading of rule 206 is that cars only give way to pedestrians (not bikes) at a side road. Cars give way to peds AND cyclists on the pavement only at a driveway. As the OP was crossing a side road, not a driveway, he would shoulder most of the blame .

In which case, 182 & 183 apply - note particularly the last part of 183;


182
Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle. Cyclists, motorcyclists and other road users in particular may be hidden from your view.



183
When turning

• keep as close to the left as is safe and practicable
• give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction

 

[PoliceMadAd]

Thanks everyone, i understand we were both at fault in some way. Just curious to your opinions.

 

[Banjo]

Good thread PMA anything that highlights the danger of getting hit by vehicles turning left is good.

This is similar to the danger of filtering up the left of a que of traffic at a junction, If the front vehicle (especially vans buses and HGV s) suddenly turns left when the lights change you can be caught in a dangerous position with no way out.

 

[John the Monkey]

Good thread PMA anything that highlights the danger of getting hit by vehicles turning left is good.

This is similar to the danger of filtering up the left of a que of traffic at a junction, If the front vehicle (especially vans buses and HGV s) suddenly turns left when the lights change you can be caught in a dangerous position with no way out.

You can, although again, the Highway Code specifically exhorts drivers to be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists "who may be passing on either side". In the UK, it's worth remembering the gulf between de facto and de jure on the roads.

 

[snailracer]

In which case, 182 & 183 apply - note particularly the last part of 183;


182
Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle. Cyclists, motorcyclists and other road users in particular may be hidden from your view.



183
When turning

• keep as close to the left as is safe and practicable
• give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction

The motorist broke rule 182 by not signalling, but did not break rule 183 because a cycle "path" (i.e. a cycleway on a pavement) is not the same as a cycle "lane" (i.e. cycleway marked on a road).

Rule 206 requires motorists to give way to pedestrians already crossing the side road, which is probably why it doesn't apply to cyclists - they are likely to be going fast enough to make it difficult to determine whether they would have started crossing by the time the motorist has began to turn in.

It's all terribly complicated and, bottom line, unsafe.

 

[snailracer]

Very occasionally, you may come across a cycleway that transitions from a pavement cycle path, to an on-road cycle lane across the width of the side road, before transitioning back to a pavement cycle path, but this should be marked out with broken cycle lane lines (and broken cyclists, because motorists don’t recognize it for what it is).