AVerage cadence query (probably a case of how long is a piece of string)

[FrothNinja]

Trying to get a handle on what is regarded as normal cadence.
I live in Pendle which is quite a hilly area and my average cadence (regardless of leg power only or ebike) varies between 60 & 70 dependent of whether I am off or on road. My average speed (similar codicils) varies between 10 and 14 mph. For the last 6 months or so the majority of my riding is zone 3 to 4, usually about 10 to 20% zone 2, almost never any zone 1, but even when I think I am pushing it, I rarely get even 10% in zone 5. I do have dicky knees but if I feel I have hit my limit it is because I am feeling breathless (though I can still swear at close passers). This seems to be the case regardless of the distance I ride.
The exception is when I go for it on my ancient friction trainer and hammer it for a mile then on occasion I can 40sh% and 16 mph avg though I am not sure of cadence. Middling amount of resistance on the roller and using a stiffish gear.
The stringy query is (& I may be instinctively conserving my strength) have I hit my limit riding outside or is there some way to push through given the hilly terrain? I appreciate this may be a naïve and unanswerable question, but some rules of thumb from more knowledgeable peeps would be welcomed.
Off to bed to ponder - look forward to your replies and a sunny morning with no wind (except mine own)

 

[ColinJ]

I don't think what other people find 'normal' would be of much use to you! I mean if someone tells you that 40 rpm is better, would you start doing that cadence instead? Or 120 rpm?

As a matter of interest though, when I come over your neck of the woods I am typically doing 75-100 rpm unless I stand to climb a steep hill. If standing, it would be more 40-60 rpm. I don't have a super-high top gear (48/12) so if I wanted to go fast on a descent I would have to pedal at a highish cadence, maybe as high as 120 rpm, but I would generally just get down on the drops and freewheel instead.

 

[Sharky]

Doesn't answer your question, but may be of interest. As an aging TT rider, I am currently riding our 10's on a 50x15 fixed, which I believe is an 88"gear. The latter is a massive gear for leisure riding, but pretty mediocre for a TT.

My times for a 10 are just outside 30 mins or very close to 20 mph. Going over the "bridge" my speed drops to 13mph and on the fast return leg, can hit 28mph.

Plugging these numbers into Bikecalc my cadence varies from about 50 rpm to 107 rpm, with an average of about 77 for the 30 minutes.

 

[PaulSB]

From what I can gather in your OP you're using cadence as a measure of effort. From the little i know I think on its own it doesn't give much indication of effort. I've no idea what my average cadrnce is as it varies widely depending on how I feel, ride speed, terrain, headwind etc. I'm from Chorley and we ride to your area so I know it. If you're mainly riding the hills I'd say 60-70 is a decent cadence. I vary my cadence to suit the ride I'm doing and don't use it as a measure of effort.

I'm not sure if it helps you but my HR for my last three rides was:

Road - 117 miles, average 15.6. Z1 4%, Z2 63%, Z3 25%. This was a road ride but I was on my gravel bike so the effort was high.

Gravel - 53 miles, average 11.5. Z1 68%, Z2 31%

Road - 49 miles, average 15.3. Z1 35%, Z2 52% Z4 3.4% and Z5 2.1%

On the third ride the time in Z4/5 matches closely a PB I was chasing on a local segment. I was in those zones for 10 minutes 23 seconds on a 3.6 mile segment with an average incline of 1.5% which took me 12m 29secs at an average speed of 17.4mph.

You asked have I reached my limit? I would say you can't measure it by cadence. My limit? Well only sheer determination allowed me to ride the segment above, I was on my limit for much of those 12 minutes. You can see most of my riding is Z1 or 2 and generally averaging 15/16 mph which is comfortable. On a ride we're usually cruising at 18-20 mph on occasion higher. I wouldn't want to reach my limit because it means there's nothing in reserve and it's almost impossible for us mortals to maintain.

What is normal cadence? I think most would say 75-90 rpm for a fit amateur and 60/65 for leisure cycling. For most of us it's simply about what is comfortable on any given day.

 

[CXRAndy]

You seem to be confusing speed with cadence.
Most of your riding should be Z1/2 with a cadence that is comfortable. Now this is where everybody has a different opinion.

I do ride mostly on an indoor trainer, and average 90rpm for the events I do. When training to do endurance events again I like to have a 90+ rpm.

This doesn't mean I'm riding out of Z2, I'm using a low gear to keep my heart rate in the correct zone and cadence to keep legs fresh. The speed is irrelevant when you want to attain a certain cadence range and HR.

Living in a hilly area makes cadence training and HR control more difficult if your bikes gearing doesn't go low enough to stay in the lower HR zones. Hence why I do most of my training indoors.

I do have a ebike and use it to flatten hills or stiff headwinds.

I'd suggest you choose lower gearing to allow your legs to spin more quickly,cwhilst keeping HR in lower zones 1 and 2. This is one of the best ways to tune up your cardiovascular engine. Then on a couple of occasions per week have a flat out max effort ride in Z5 once warmed up first.

If you're are suffering with breathing get your doctor to check you over

 

[CXRAndy]

These are two of my recent recorded rides, both indoor on Zwift. fist one is a race of 25 mins duration, the other is a recovery ride for an hour. My cadence for both events was between 85-105rpm

 

[FrothNinja]

Many thanks for the replies so far.
I'm using (perhaps unsuccesfully) my cadence and heart rate to measure my effort. Any speed (or lack of it) is mentioned as a perhaps failed attempt to show what the result of the other two things is.
Just about to head out on a longish for me ride (though it looks quite grey). Will post the cadence & zone results tonight - which may help.

 

[iandg]

My last 200km. Approx 2/3 in Z2 and 1/3 in Z3. I tend to average 90-100 rpm on majority of rides.

Find your own natural cadence. If you want to improve and strengthen the ability to "push through" you need to include some kind of interval training in a structured programme.

 

[MichaelW2]

Cadence depends on the muscle type, size and mass of your legs. Heavier, longer legs are harder to move quickly. Some riders prefer to pedal with more force.
The other factor is the length of your cranks, in relation to your leg ( femur) length. A short rider using long cranks cannot spin quickly. For your leg length, you can choose a long, med or short crank to match your prefered cadence style.

 

[wafter]

Cadence has little to do with effort; you can make the same power by pushing big dollops of torque through the pedals at a low cadence or much lower forces at high cadence. As fitness improves your stronger legs will be able to apply more force to the pedals for a given cadence, increasing power output.

Favoured cadence will be a personal thing to a point; obviously infleunced by external factors such as gradient and gearing. If you don't have a power meter to measure absolute effort, heart rate is as good as it gets for measuring relative effort (and something I've found really useful). External factor such as wind and different elevation changes over different rides notwithstanding, as fitness improves you should see mean heart rate falling for a given mean speed, or mean speed increasing for a given heart rate.

FWIW my median cadence (most of the time if I'm rolling along comfortably on that flat at say 14-16mph) is probably 80-90rev/min. This obviously drops when I hit an upward hill; either because I've run out of gears or I'm out of the saddle and taking it easy. At the high end of the range I certainly have more than enough gears while pedalling like a mentalist downhill is a waste of energy, so I rarely go much above 100rev/min at a guess.

 

[iandg]

Cadence depends on the muscle type, size and mass of your legs. Heavier, longer legs are harder to move quickly. Some riders prefer to pedal with more force.
The other factor is the length of your cranks, in relation to your leg ( femur) length. A short rider using long cranks cannot spin quickly. For your leg length, you can choose a long, med or short crank to match your prefered cadence style.

35" inside leg (trousers). My fastest 10 last year was at average 103rpm

I grew up racing track - my pursuit pb of 5' 2" back in 1981 would probably have been on 90" gear so approx 112rpm

 

[CXRAndy]

My last 200km. Approx 2/3 in Z2 and 1/3 in Z3. I tend to average 90-100 rpm on majority of rides.

Absolute classic example of endurance riding

High cadence, blended with low Z1/2 HR= aerobic engine peak tuning at its best

 

[Ming the Merciless]

If you want to get faster you need a whole lot more Z1/2 to develop your aerobic engine. You’ve fallen into that classic trap of lots of happy hard. Neither hard enough nor easy enough for you to improve. Thus you stagnate.

On the issue of cadence I usually sit between 80-90 rpm, but I do also do big gear low cadence (40-60 rpm) hill training to work on muscular strength endurance.

 

[Sharky]

On the issue of cadence I usually sit between 80-90 rpm, but I do also do big gear low cadence (40-60 rpm) hill training to work on muscular strength endurance.

I do most of my training on a 68" single speed. It makes you ride at both ends of the cadence range. Hills provide low cadence/heavy load training and flats and descents really push my cadence range up.

My theory is that the enforced variation in cadence with a SS is more beneficial than using gears.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I do most of my training on a 68" single speed. It makes you ride at both ends of the cadence range. Hills provide low cadence/heavy load training and flats and descents really push my cadence range up.

My theory is that the enforced variation in cadence with a SS is more beneficial than using gears.

Even more beneficial with fixed