Are Women more in danger than Men...

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yenrod

Guest
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8296971.stm

Many of the fatalities involving cyclists happen in collisions with a heavy goods vehicle (HGV). This year, seven of the eight people killed by lorries in London have been women.

Considering that women make only 28% of the UK's cycling journeys, this seems extremely high.

There are no national figures but there's little reason to think it is any different. In August, a 27-year-old woman died in Leeds after her bike was in collision with a lorry.

These deaths could be attributed to a tragic anomaly, but some cycling campaigners are concerned whether there is something about how women cycle which puts them at greater risk from lorries.


"It's something we're trying to understand. When you look at HGV accidents there are a lot more women involved than you would expect. We don't know why that is," says Charlie Lloyd, from the London Cycling Campaign.

With this in mind, his group has organised a special women-only bike ride to the Cycle Show in London's Earls Court this weekend, a trip that ends with the chance for participants to sit in a lorry and experience the view drivers have of the road.

The high incidence of women killed by lorries has come to the attention of the authorities before.

In 2007, an internal report for Transport for London concluded women cyclists are far more likely to be killed by lorries because, unlike men, they tend to obey red lights and wait at junctions in the driver's blind spot.

This means that if the lorry turns left, the driver cannot see the cyclist as the vehicle cuts across the bike's path.

The report said that male cyclists are generally quicker getting away from a red light - or, indeed, jump red lights - and so get out of the danger area.


BIKES V LORRIES - THE SAFE WAY

1. Cyclists should never pass a lorry on its left side at a junction, even if there is a wide gap. In addition, they should never stop near the front left corner of such a vehicle as they cannot be seen.
2. Cyclists should always make sure they are far enough in front of the lorry so that the driver can see them - about 15ft (4.6m) for the largest.


But could it be a matter of confidence? Some women don't feel safe on their bikes and nervous cyclists could put themselves in danger, says Wendy Johnston of sustainable transport charity Sustrans.

Safety is the prime factor stopping women from getting on their bikes, she says, so her organisation is leading a campaign called "Bike Belles" to promote women's cycling, including a petition calling for the government to promote safety.

Feeling nervous about cycling can influence the way people ride, she says. Some women tend to cycle too close to the pavement as they want to stay as far away from traffic as possible.

"This can be a problem as vehicles may not regard you as part of the traffic flow and don't give the right amount of space. It means they may be tempted to come closer to you," says Mrs Johnston.

"It can have an impact on how other vehicles treat you. It can also impact on confidence as if they come too close, as it makes you feel you can't come out in the road."

'More aggression'

While many cyclists are calling for more cycle lanes to make their journeys safer, others dislike them because they believe they encourage people to ride down the left-hand-side of large vehicles and towards the kerb.

Marian Louise Noonan, 32, from south London, is a confessed kerb-hugger, and that leaves her feeling quite vulnerable on the roads, unlike her husband.

"He cycles much more aggressively and is aware of all the traffic around him. He cycles as if someone is going to hit him and makes sure he is in a safe position," she says.

"I'm much more nervous of my cycling ability, I'm frightened people might hit me, which means I don't cycle in a positive manner."

SAFE CYCLING
Be aware of lorries
Be alert
Watch your position on the road
Wait ahead at lights
Take care in bus lanes
Be seen and be safe
Make eye contact
Ride confidently
Source: London Cycling Campaign
The main problem is the attitude of other drivers, she says, as they make her feel like she does not belong on the road.

She also feels reluctant to put herself at the front of the traffic at red lights, which is the safest place for cyclists to be.

"Things like being able to sit in the boxes at the front of traffic lights are safer for someone like me, because it takes a bit more effort to move off and get to the correct speed, but sometimes that annoys other drivers as it looks like you're pushing in."

Ms Noonan's reluctance to assert herself is typical, says Dr Dave Horton from Lancaster University, a sociologist who has written a study on the fear of cycling.

"Being highly visible in public spaces is something women are going to be less comfortable with than men, especially in the road environment in marked areas where people can see you and male drivers can see you.

"There's a discomfort around putting yourself on display. It's the idea that in a car it's much harder to see you."

Nerves

Turning right is also a problem for some women cyclists because they lack the confidence to look over their shoulder and judge when to cross the traffic, says Ian Walker, a professor of traffic and transport psychology at the University of Bath. He drew this conclusion after studying 5,000 cyclists in Oxford and Cambridge.

But he challenges the notion that nervous cyclists are generally more vulnerable because if fear is visible it can help, he says. The more confident you look, the closer the cars get, he says, and a deliberate wobble is sometimes used by cyclists to get more space.

In one experiment, he cycled with a device which measured how much room cars gave as they passed, then repeated it while wearing a long female wig. Drivers gave the "woman" more room.

Setting lorries aside, the bigger picture is that far more men are killed on their bikes. In 2008, 84% of the 115 fatalities were men and 81% of reported injuries were to men.

CYCLING WITH CONFIDENCE
I try to make as clear signals as possible, I stick my hand right out and when it comes to buses and lorries I'm very aware of blind spots. Confidence in your own ability, spatial awareness, looking and listening to what's going on around you, and making sure you're visible are the most important things.

Jane Hornsby, who cycles five miles a day
And overall, the number of cyclists killed in Britain has fallen by 27% compared with the mid-1990s. Last year, 115 cyclists were killed on the roads, a 15% fall from 136 deaths in 2007.

Two of the women recently killed were experienced, so it's not just about nerves, says Chief Inspector Graham Horwood of the Met Police Traffic Unit.

"It's often that they are in the wrong place at the wrong time and circumstances get to a certain point where they end up in these positions.

"You can't always blame the cyclists and you can't always blame the lorry drivers, it's a mix of who's responsible."

Confident female cyclists like Jane Hornsby, 49, from Oxford, says it's not just safety that puts some women off getting on two wheels.

Practical issues like changing facilities and bringing a spare outfit also play a part.

Women may also have less time than men, she says, because they tend to have the responsibility of looking after children before and after work, and are often carrying shopping.
 
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yenrod

Guest
This article touches a nerve with me. I am an experienced and confident cyclist, but am uncomfortable about cycling past stationary traffic to get to the front at traffic lights. I've had cars pull out to prevent me getting past. I've also experienced road rage where someone (a female passenger) opened her window and screamed at me for daring to be in the right-hand lane in a one-way system. (I was about to turn right.) I've also had a car go past me so close on a left-hand bend that they've touched my wheel. One-way systems are a menace here for cyclists, as are traffic calming measures that force you on to the opposite side of the road into the path of on-coming traffic. My work does not have showering or changing facilities, which doesn't stop me cycling to work, but makes life more difficult.
Anne Lincoln, Maidstone, UK



My brother was killed four weeks ago whilst out cycling. He who used to be a semi-professional cyclist and so was very experienced and not nervous. He was wearing all the right clothing etc. The motorist that ran him down did not give him enough room! His life was cut short and it is extremely heartbreaking for all who knew him.
Lynne Danieli, Middlesbrough







When I did my motorbike training, we were told to not hug the kerb because doing so would encourage drivers to try and squeeze past. If they don't make it, they pull in and, as you are right up against the kerb, you have nowhere to go. Hold your road position and make cars/lorries overtake you properly. If they can't, they'll just have to wait. I also use this philosophy when cycling and I always try & position myself where car/lorry/bus drivers can see me.
Sally, Hullbridge Essex

Cycling has become more and more dangerous. Motorists, particularly during rush hour, are often distracted or bad tempered and tend to take more risks. Coupled with these modern cars which have very fast acceleration combined with strengthened bodies I am thankful that there hasn't been an increase in cyclist fatalities. In my city there is a severe lack of cycle lanes, and when there is a cycle lane, it is either next to the kerb or actually on the pavement. When there is no cycle lane I feel very exposed even when I am wearing a high-vis vest, helmet and lights. Motorists can be aggressive towards cyclists which forces us further towards the pavement. I have noticed that even when I am able to use a cycle lane the other road users tend to come much closer than I would say is safe. Worse still, people park over cycle lanes and are either not aware of, or don't care about the danger this causes.
Charlotte, Leeds, W.Yorks, UK

One of the worst situations I find as a cyclist is being caught up in the traffic light Grand Prix. As soon as the lights change and it's "GO, GO, GO!...", woe betide any cyclist who's off to a wobbly start. With modern lights often incorporating pedestrian priorities, I would have thought it possible to provide a little extra for "cyclists" in the form of a small green light that comes on for say 5 seconds before all the budding drag racers hit their nitro' buttons when the main lights change.
Richard, Sutton Coldfield

I think it's simply a matter of women failing to appreciate the space needed by HGVs when manoeuvring as well as men. Tests have shown that differences in spatial awareness account for why men are generally better than women at parking, and this could be an extension of the same problem. Men are also more likely to be familiar with HGVs and their characteristics than women. This isn't to say that there aren't some excellent exceptions to the rule!
Jamie, Wendover, UK

Having seen the way cyclists ride in London, I'm not surprised many are involved in accidents. They ride without lights after dark, ignore traffic lights and ride aggressively as if they own the road. Apparently that is how the LCC want it in parts of London - pedestrians and cyclists only (and I'm sure they would prefer not to have pedestrians in their way as they cycle along the pavement).
Iain, Scotland

"The main problem is the attitude of other drivers, she says, as they make her feel like she does not belong on the road" I cycle daily and I wholeheartedly agree with this comment. I do not allow my children to cycle to school because of this. Lorry drivers tend to be more polite than car or van drivers, but are more dangerous because of blind spots.
Al, T Wells, UK

This is a really interesting article. I think men and women generally do cycle differently for all the reasons mentioned. Riding too close to the kerb is a real issue, cars will try to squeeze past if they can even when there is oncoming traffic. By riding slightly further from the kerb (about a foot beyond the grids) you will generally force drives to cross the white line in order to overtake. This puts them in danger of being hit by oncoming traffic which focuses their mind on choosing carefully when they overtake. When my wife and I our out on our tandem we tend to get far more room from drivers; perhaps because the stoker (that's the one on the back) can easily make eye contact with the driver before they overtake?
Mark, Leicester

In a perfect world it would be safest to overtake the lorry on the right hand side, but my experience of venturing nearer the middle of the road (no-man's land) makes me very wary as you're competing for space with motorcyclists doing the same. Also it puts you in a position where you're closer to the oncoming traffic, equally dangerous. Rock and a hard place really...
Stewart Paling, London
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
Yenrod

This is a very interesting article with some valid points and unfortunately some real clangers of assumptions. Unfortunately haven't got time today at work (hahahaha should be working!) to fully write a comprehensive reply.

I am a woman and a cyclist and a fast and assertive one with excellent spatial awareness and yes in London -lol. I however, do think that I may be in the minority with the way I cycle. A woman was killed who according to her sister was a very experienced cyclist.

Although this article is thought provoking and interesting in terms of tackling diversity and trying to increase skills/awareness in a targeted specific group ie women what it also unfortunately reinforces is the fact that somehow the responsiblity here is entirely on the cyclist NOT cycling in the left hand part of the lorry and also being assertive.

What it doesn't address is that this is a two way relationship with road users and HGV drivers also need to use their training and their mirrors - with a HGV a SMIDSY is too late and can't be uttered if you've got a cyclist fatality on your hands and tbh is not something any driver wants to happen. I think a few others may agree with me that an article like this though well meaning can unintentionally reinforce the unhelpful misconception that a cyclist's actions are mainly to blame in a cyclist/HGV fatality.

Yenrod - my thoughts really - not a personal attack on you but useful to have the article put up as a thought provoking piece.

EDIT: Can a mod please move this to HGV/Cyclist campaign as it seems to fit there? Thanks

EDIT2: Another thought as well - another issue with HGV and cyclist interactions is that HGV drivers have mentioned that sometimes it is very difficult to drive a HGV in town (not just London) roads that are narrow and not designed for large goods vehicles.

So there is some real mutiplicity to the issue that the journalist was trying to come at from only one viewpoint!
 
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yenrod

Guest
ttcycle said:
Yenrod

This is a very interesting article with some valid points and unfortunately some real clangers of assumptions. Unfortunately haven't got time today at work (hahahaha should be working!) to fully write a comprehensive reply.

I am a woman and a cyclist and a fast and assertive one with excellent spatial awareness and yes in London -lol. I however, do think that I may be in the minority with the way I cycle. A woman was killed who according to her sister was a very experienced cyclist.

Although this article is thought provoking and interesting in terms of tackling diversity and trying to increase skills/awareness in a targeted specific group ie women what it also unfortunately reinforces is the fact that somehow the responsiblity here is entirely on the cyclist NOT cycling in the left hand part of the lorry and also being assertive.

What it doesn't address is that this is a two way relationship with road users and HGV drivers also need to use their training and their mirrors - with a HGV a SMIDSY is too late and can't be uttered if you've got a cyclist fatality on your hands and tbh is not something any driver wants to happen. I think a few others may agree with me that an article like this though well meaning can unintentionally reinforce the unhelpful misconception that a cyclist's actions are mainly to blame in a cyclist/HGV fatality.

Yenrod - my thoughts really - not a personal attack on you but useful to have the article put up as a thought provoking piece.

EDIT: Can a mod please move this to HGV/Cyclist campaign as it seems to fit there? Thanks

EDIT2: Another thought as well - another issue with HGV and cyclist interactions is that HGV drivers have mentioned that sometimes it is very difficult to drive a HGV in town (not just London) roads that are narrow and not designed for large goods vehicles.

So there is some real mutiplicity to the issue that the journalist was trying to come at from only one viewpoint!

ttcycle - Just a discussion 'put up' thing NOT a personal viewpoint...
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
yenrod said:
ttcycle - Just a discussion 'put up' thing NOT a personal viewpoint...

Don't worry yenrod - I know this isn't your personal viewpoint as stated in my post :biggrin:
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
Well I think it was a good article in general on the BBC website will at least get some publicity for lorry/cycle do's and don'ts.

I think women are definitely more cautious - I found one hovering in between lanes in the centre (at that point its 3 lanes wide) - I told her to join me behind a car. She admitted she was nervous in the short while we rode together.
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
There probably is Jools - I might even be interested myself as currently teaching friends to cycle but it would also be useful to open it out to cyclists of all kinds

Though I know there are several bikeability courses around already - maybe the publicity for these as well as riding sociably with clubs etc may not be general knowledge.
 
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