Are team tactics fair?

[HLaB]

I've just listened to Cooke's account of the recent road champ, she feels that the adopted team tactics in a national race were unfair. I kinda of agree with her but IMO that's the way it is so you just have to live with it. What do folk think?

 

[Flying_Monkey]

That's cycling. If she had a half decent team - which I wish she did - she'd be doing the same thing. Think of how Pooley worked for her at the Olympics...

 

[andrew_s]

Apparently they had been read a lecture before the start about racing as individuals rather than teams.
To my mind, If that's what BC wanted they should have told everyone to wear a plain red top rather than team kit.

 

[John the Monkey]

It'd never happen anyway.

how long Desgranges spend trying to get riders to work individually?

 

[Chuffy]

Well he started grumbling about it in 1903 and it took him years before he accepted the idea of teams/domestiques or other assistance.

IIRC didn't Robert Millar whinge like a red-haired stepchild when the nasty Spanish teams ganged up on him in the 84(?) Vuelta?

 

[HLaB]

IIRC didn't Robert Millar whinge like a red-haired stepchild when the nasty Spanish teams ganged up on him in the 84(?) Vuelta?

He did but because they attacked when he had a mechanical; which is not sporting IMO (unwritten rules). If it had been done like Cooke complains it would have been fair game.

 

[Chuffy]

He did but because they attacked when he had a mechanical; which is not sporting IMO (unwritten rules). If it had been done like Cooke complains it would have been fair game.

I though that the problem with Millar wasn't that they attacked when he had a mechanical, it was because no-one would help him chase down the breakaway which contained Delgado? That allowed Delgado to pull back the time he needed to win.

 

[Chuffy]

When I say 'ganged up' what I actually mean is 'refused to help a foreign rider on another team beat a Spanish rider in a Spanish Grand Tour'. The bastards.

 

[HLaB]

I though that the problem with Millar wasn't that they attacked when he had a mechanical, it was because no-one would help him chase down the breakaway which contained Delgado? That allowed Delgado to pull back the time he needed to win.

From Wiki

However when Pedro Delgado attacked after Millar returned to the front group after a puncture there was, what has since been referred to as a collusion[2]

It was a p'ture and nobody told him about the breakaway till it was too late. The interview on youtube is quite funny (unfortunately it has been removed) he get's right stuck into directeur sportif

 

[John the Monkey]

IIRC didn't Robert Millar whinge like a red-haired stepchild when the nasty Spanish teams ganged up on him in the 84(?) Vuelta?

That's slightly different, as it wasn't members of one team stopping another winning, it was members of several uniting on grounds of Nationality to frustrate the ambitions of a non-Spaniard.

 

[Chuffy]

From Wiki



It was a p'ture and nobody told him about the breakaway till it was too late. The interview on youtube is quite funny (unfortunately it has been removed) he get's right stuck into directeur sportif

Ah, so they attacked after he got back from puncturing? I agree that it certainly seemed like the Spanish teams were, shall we say, less than helpful. But really, so what and why should they be? Didn't his team boss get loads of stick for not making a deal with a rival team to help chase?

I'm doing this from memory btw, so I could be mistaken!

 

[HLaB]

Ah, so they attacked after he got back from puncturing? I agree that it certainly seemed like the Spanish teams were, shall we say, less than helpful. But really, so what and why should they be? Didn't his team boss get loads of stick for not making a deal with a rival team to help chase?

I'm doing this from memory btw, so I could be mistaken!

I don't know if his directeur sportif got a general load of stick from the media etc, but he sure got it from Millar

 

[Chuffy]

That's slightly different, as it wasn't members of one team stopping another winning, it was members of several uniting on grounds of Nationality to frustrate the ambitions of a non-Spaniard.

Slightly (sorry, missed this post earlier) but only just. Don't these ad-hoc alliances/grudges/feuds etc happen all the time? For example didn't Astana (followed by Garmin) chase down Hincapie (riding for Columbia HTC) last year just to stop him getting yellow?

 

[lukesdad]

The 1984 Vuelta was extraordinary. There were alot of other factors as well in that breakaway,the weather the communications a certain railway crossing as I remember, and also Kelly finally refused to help Millar as well I believe.

 

[Will1985]

For example didn't Astana (followed by Garmin) chase down Hincapie (riding for Columbia HTC) last year just to stop him getting yellow?

Don't forget Columbia as well! His greedy team mates did some heavy pulls to make sure they got some points using their lead out train. A fat lot of good that did because it was the same stage where Cav was docked points for blocking Hushovd